[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by jeaninmt

This is an interesting thought with the brown paper. One of the things we have always considered is the blackness of the soil helping warm it up. Our subsoil is about 45 degrees.

What I usually do with the transplants is let them start growing pretty well after planting them out, 2 - 3 weeks depending on the weather, then mulch them to keep the weeds out. However if its a chilly Spring, I mulch them deeply with old hay and cover them to keep them warm. Then when the weather straightens out, pull the mulch back to warm the soil. Then the mulch gets rearranged around the plants through the season.

Does the paper itself do more mulching than the mulch, or about the same ? Does anyone recommend a source for the wide rolls of brown paper ? Would the rolls of news print paper work from the newspaper ?

I was thinking of asking my nephew who is a welder to make me a broad fork. Do you suppose the angles and such could be determined from a catalog picture ?
Thanks, Jean in Mt

I will try to address your questions.

In post 23 of this thread I put a link. but here it is again.

http://www.ecoenclose.com/Bogus_Pape...p/pbr24-50.htm

However, bogus paper is available all over from many suppliers. I like how bogus paper is thick, flexible, absorbant and cheap. I use newspapers themselves now for small scale, but generally find I need several layers thick. In trying to scale this up to something workable large scale, I had to think of a cheap material usable 1 layer thick that wouldn't shred up and make a huge mess in the wind while I tried to lay it down, walk on it to lay the hay mulch, walk on it again to plant etc etc etc.... Bogus paper seemed to foot the bill in every respect except it is grey instead of black. (some light is bound to filter through the hay and black would seem to be slightly better) I did actually think of newsprint paper first and that's what originally gave me the idea in the first place. I also thought of cardboard rolls, brown paper rolls, Craft paper rolls (they come in black), gardening landscape felt, and a bunch more possibilities. You are welcome to experiment with me on this to work out what may be best in your area. I just think bogus paper is a good place to start.

The mulch is the hay, not the paper. The paper is a barrier that prevents weeds and also a moisture barrier, insect barrier, protective skin for the soil etc. You have to always have the paper covered in hay, grass clippings etc. Never bare, not even when laying it down. Imagine a gust of wind hitting 1000 feet of paper without hay covering it? What a mess you'll have! So the hay will have to follow DIRECTLY after the paper as it is being rolled out. Then the whole thing must be dampened with water to settle it. (you have a little time to do that though)

I also have thought of your technique of using mulch now and how to adapt this into my commercially scalable prototype. Lets say for example you wanted to plant 5 rows of direct seed veggies 1 foot apart. You would buy 6 X 1 foot wide bogus paper rolls (or whatever) and some 3 foot wide round hay bales. Then you would place 3 rolls of bogus paper side by side with a couple inches between them and set up a roll of hay behind that. Unroll all 3 rolls of bogus paper at once carefully keeping the spacing followed closely by 3 foot wide hay being unrolled. repeat. You now have 6 feet 10 inches of ground covered by paper and hay with 5 X 2 inch "slits" running through it with no paper. (obviously to scale it even larger you would use machinery but we will call you mid size) Let that sit a few weeks until you are ready to plant. Pull back the mulch away from the "slits" and plant. When the seedlings have sprouted and grown large enough, pull the hay back around them or just add new loose mulch like grass clippings around them. That should work for you jeaninmt. You are welcome to join me in developing these techniques. Any input you guys come up with good or bad would be great. I am sure there is bound to be bugs to work out. But we both have the same goal. Figure out a way to scale it up.


Note to anyone reading this:

I have many years experience with till and no-till, mulching, sheet mulching, lazagne mulching and organic gardening, raising chickens, cattle, goats, rabbits etc... But all small scale. I have also worked as a paid employee for large scale conventional farmers and seed research and supply companies. (And a few mid range too) mostly in my youth.

I have more than once asked the big guys who employed me, or others I encountered over the years, why they couldn't use organic (and permaculture) techniques on their large scale operations? Almost all of them universally have stated over the years that they would if they could, but it wasn't possible, feasible or profitable. You can almost count on it as a standard answer every time. I couldn't answer because I saw no solution either. But it has been chewing at the back of my mind for over 30 years.

Then a while back I discovered "Omnivores Dilemma"- by Michael Pollan published in 2006. I of course was instantly struck by this awesome book. I did months of research. There is a 20 billion dollar a year industry doing the "impossible". And yet they really haven't truely solved the problem of scaling up organic agronomics to large scale commercial. It really isn't yet "feasible" truely large scale. Almost all of it is small scale multiplied over and over. What I did discover was a breakthrough in animal husbandry called "managed intensive rotational grazing" which will eventually make about 70% of the mass plantings of corn, soy and wheat obsolete. The writing is on the wall. All because a family farm called Polyface run by Joel Salatin discovered a way to use modern technology and apply it to permaculture and organic to develop a method and modern business management model that is easily scalable from very small to full size industrial, and everything inbetween. He is just a small farmer, but his model is usable at any scale with very minor modifications. The man is a true genius.

Here is a 3 vid playlist at YouTube that aired on TV introducing Joel Salatin and his farm and ideas to the public. (3 X 1/2 hour vids)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYWYU...=plpp_play_all

That got me to thinking. I think in the process of my research I have figured out a possible solution to the problem I have been working on for over 30 years in my head by combining parts of Salatins concepts of animal husbandry to what I know about organic agronomy.

This "Redbaron" technique heavily borrows on breakthroughs made by many people, yet it is totally untested as of yet. Each part individually I can say with confidence works. But integrated together in a real world tested and proven, flexible, scaleable model? Never been done. It is so flexible that even it can be done without the animal husbandry (but not quite as well). With very minor adjustments of proven existing equipment, I believe it can even be adapted to full scale industrial and still remain organic.

This is year zero. I found Tomatoville and quickly realised there are many many very experienced people here. You guys are even making real meaningful differences yourself with things like the Cross Hemisphere Dwarf Project™, Ray's Earthtainer, The ANATOHUM project, Tatiana's TOMATObase, Jennifer's Bridgeport Urban farm and many more. This has inspired me to get off my lazy arse and actually at least try to put this idea into a workable project.

I am dead serious. You guys really have inspired me. Even the ones I have had minor disagreements with, maybe even especially them. Nothing gets my back up more that telling me something can't be done. Why else would I be carrying it with me for 30 years and still thinking about it?