Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbaron
I think really there are two main issues at hand. One would obviously be the origin of Black Krim. I think you are absolutely correct about it originating in Eastern Europe, probably Ukraine, or at least somewhere in the greater Eastern European/Russian agricultural belt.
The second part though is less clear. We all know local conditions can change the quality of the tomatoes produced by any cultivar. Tops on that list of local conditions is the soil. So I think it is relevant to talk about the geography of Ukraine, especially as it relates to soil types and climate. Unfortunately though there are two problems with this approach. I don't think anyone knows 100% for sure exactly the soil where the first black mutation resulting in Black Krim happened. We also don't know for sure if that original location is really the ideal local conditions to grow the best tasting Black Krim tomatoes. It certainly is plausible, since there must have been some reason the Black Krim cultivar became popular and an heirloom. However, the mutation could have even happened elsewhere and only becoming popular once it reached those ideal soils. We do know with certainty soils can change the flavor of tomatoes grown in them. The Greater Ukraine area does have some particularly good soils, but also some not as fertile. So while less likely, it is possible Black Krim does slightly better in one of those less fertile soils too?
Lastly, assuming both those issues above are in fact true, garden381 wanted to know how to recreate as closely as possible the ideal soil for Black Krim in Florida. That's really difficult. It used to be thought impossible to create a soil class by agricultural practises alone, short of simply importing in soil from the outside. Now it is known you can change your soil type in certain conditions. But not knowing for certain which soil type is ideal for Black Krim to begin with, it would be impossible to say if garden381 could do it in that part of Florida.
I could give advise on how to create a mollic epipedon, assuming the soil there is not too sandy and has enough loess/silt/clay AND experiences at least some ground freeze events. (It's actually created under a grassland ecosystem, but can end up being forested later) But that doesn't happen in most of Florida. So I would think even if we could find out for sure, it might be impossible for garden381 to do it anyway, at least in our lifetimes.
So the best advise is simply build the soil the best you can with mulches and compost, things like that. Or as some people have done, grow in containers. Then enjoy what you produce. It may not be ideal, but surely it must be better than a store-bought tomato.  |
Hi Redbaron,
Thanks MUCH for your info.
Understanding the overall of your message i agree totally with the issue of ORIGIN of the b'c. as pointed out by yourself and others in this thread as well.
A bit of background on myself and previous growing conditions in my past experiance.
I grew up in South Florida and raised various cultivars in that climate for almost 20 years. It overall produces a generally thicker skin on most varieties which I have grown there.
Native soil in south florida is, near the coast, 'hawthorn'-a composite of limestone,coral, some organic matter and course sand. Mostly unwelcomed for ground planting in Pompano Beach where i lived.
Pervious to that i lived in Sunrise florida-about 15 miles inland where the soil conditions were mainly light sand, everglades peat, and limestone fragmented all having a water table of 24 inches. Here i had FANTASTIC success with 'Brandywine'.
The skins were thick however due to the sunlight and 85+ temperature in the shade.
Now, I have moved to NORTH florida where it is much cooler and has a different soil make up.
Here, i live on a grassy preserve off the arlington river. windy conditions, heavy rain at times, soil is medium sand, some organic dark matter , clay and silt. water table at 6 feet in my location. my ph here ranges from 5.9 to 6.5 in my sloping 1250 sq.ft.garden. it slopes toward the water so i am ONLY organic-not wanting to add chemicals to the waterway and grassland.
the coldest i have seen it here was 26 degrees but only for about 2-3 weeks.
i explain this because i notice a such difference in the QUALITY of the tomatoes and wish to combine my overall soil content from all other locations forming a potentially better soil containing at least some of the geological elements.
Fortunately, for myself, i have access to native soils from south florida, which i have on my properties and can incorporate the qualities on my current plot although it will be in a raised bed due to the volume i would need to fill the entire garden.
My overall goal is simply to produce exceptional quantities of the black krim per plant ORGANICALLY which maintains QUALITY and SIZE combined.
photo 1 is Pompano beach florida-previous residence
photo 2 is current location in Jacksonville florida (photo distorted slightly from resize)
