[igarden]

Originally Posted by Blueaussi

What rules?

the recipes.

All the articles I read have one setting out unfiltered containers. There is no way to control what microorganisms are collected. Early blight is fairly endemic to the southeast, so how can it be filtered out?

i think it's what is used to make the EM/BIM. one is trying to collect the 'beneficial' organisms from one's area.

EM Trivia

Red Cross sprays EM on bodies from Tsunami casualties before mass burial to prevent odors and spread of disease.

EM used for mold remediation/cleanup after Katrina in New Orleans.

EM approved for diaster recovery in US by FEMA.

Gram positive Microorganisms (EM) found in salt water increase after natural disasters resulting in decrease of pathogenic bacteria. [Izzy wonders if this is connected in some way to red tide/brown tide we often get that causes a massive fish kill?]

Terra Preta works hand-in-hand with EM-Bokashi by storing nutrients in soil, preventing leaching away.

Purification of industrial wastewater using photosynthetic bacterial formula produces by-products used as food for animals and fish. Treated fish and birds grew/layed eggs at a significantly greater rate than controls. By-product of purified wastewater also dried and used as natural fertilizer. Production showed an increase in number of fruit per tree plus heavier, sweeter fruit.

Originally Posted by beeman

This is why it's important to follow the rules.
Also it's why it's suggested you use 'Finished Thermal Compost' wherever possible, the 'Thermal' treatment destroys any pathogens.

excellent points beeman. and as far as the LB, EM/BIM, they are all majorly benign, so should not be a problem. as i mentioned before, my first attempt at making EM/BIM ended up with a mold on it i couldn't identify and didn't look right to me after all my reading. also, the smell was not of sweetness that they mention in the recipes. solved the problem with a 'fresher' ingredient change. same with my first batch of LB. adding the milk helps to separate the whey from the concoction, and the smell will improve. first one didn't. found out it was my timing. managed to save it and the rest of my batches all were fine.

one other thought..." buying EM negates the whole purpose of EM - the intent is to culture indigenous micro-o's that nuture plants in your particular enviroment - buying EM will get you micro's from wherever it was manufactured."

Originally Posted by beeman

.....Here is a question? I make cheese during the winter, and part of the process produces large quantities of whey, same as from Yogurt, up to 2 gallons of the stuff. Suppose I made up the LB from it, and applied it at full strength? Would it do any damage, as the suggestions are to use it at 1-20 dilution.
If I was to use the suggested strength I would have some 40 gallons of product to use. I could spray the neighborhood.

beeman, i have wondered about using a stroner formula myself, as i too have loads of LB on hand. let me know whaat you find out...or i will, if i try and when it.

Originally Posted by habitat_gardener

I see all these potions as backyard science. You read about something or come up with an idea on your own, you test it out, and you see if it works in your garden. The ones based on rice are "natural" as opposed to, say, some hucksters that suggest using toxins such as mothballs. (I, personally, would not use milk products on my garden, just as I would not ingest them.)

the milk is only used as a catalyst to separate the serum from the product. the leftover solid product can be placed in the compost...i do not drink milk either, tho use it in cooking.

I don't see any problem with someone asking, hey, has anyone tried this stuff, and what did you notice? Experimenting and observing: the basics of science. This rooting-around stage, which comes before the rigorous tests with controls and peer review, is an important part of discovery.

But so far I've seen only "shoulds" and arm waving, debates about who's drunk the coolaid and who hasn't, and vague statements about trying some unidentified substance and seeing overnight results -- which does indeed sound questionable.

So I'm interested in specifics. What did you use on what plant, what were you attempting to fix, what results did you observe?

as i mentioned before, i have taken no pics of my experiments, tho will next year, but a friend of mine has. i have her permission to quote her findings she posted on idig.....you'll have to go to the link to see her pics...

http://idigmygarden.com/forums/showt...t=17135&page=2

"Here's a pic of my first batch of homemade EM - Effective Microorganisms - as it's called in the western world; or BIM - Beneficial Indigenous Microorganisms in eastern cultures. It is a totally new concept for me, so it took a while to wrap my head around the idea. It may be familiar to some of you, especially those of you that brew your own compost teas.

yesterday AM

I have 2 orange bell pepper plants that were producing well in late winter (we've had a warm winter), but in the past few weeks, have developed what I believe to be Septoria leaf spot. Both plants have quit producing and are some sad looking plants with a large percentage of the leaves brown and dying. I planned to pull them, but first decided to use them as a test for my fresh batch of EM: what effects would a heavy application cause - burn the plant?, attact fire ants?, leave a residue on the leaves?, or just outright kill them? Clearly, I had no high hopes comparable to the hype I'd read about the stuff - just a bit of curiosity.

After mixing a double strength batch, I poured some on the leaves remaining on the plants, then drenched the soil with the rest. Standing there wondering to myself how long I should wait to get those plants out of there, it suddenly seemed that the brown patches on the leaves were dissolving away. No way - couldn't be - not that fast! I stood there with my gaze fixed on a large brown/rusty patch on one of the leaves and watched it melt away. What remained was a thin layer of yellow plant leaf tissue that still had some life left in it with a tiny dark spot in the center. It even seemed that the green portion of the leaves were a darker, more vibrant green - now that was wishful thinking.

About that time, my daughter pulled up in the drive - we had some plans for the afternoon. I didn't get home until about 4 hours later, and the first thing I did was go check on those pepper plants. Amazing is the only way to describe it - the yellow blotches were greening up a bit, and both plants were now standing erect. Before, the leaves were limp and looked ready to fall off despite adequate watering. I felt the leaves, and they were soft and pliable, not sticky or stiff. I was a little hopeful that they might survive, and decided to leave them in for a few days to see how things progressed. After all was said and done, I wished I had taken pictures of the entire process, but at the onset of this experiment, I was certain that I would be pulling those plants out of there before nightfall. Never occured to me that I would see results so quickly.

Today PM

After work today, I again inspected them - no detrimental effects from the heavy dose. A few brown patches remain. Took a couple pics. The real test will be to see if these plants will resume growing and producing.

2nd pic - top view
3rd pic - bottom view"

one can also go the GW and there are pics posted there of the amazing results of potatoes using BIM verses some not....http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...021917181.html

Originally Posted by Blueaussi

What happens when you scoop up a bacteria or fungus that's pathogenic to tomatoes or peppers, nurture it so its numbers explode, and then you spray it on your garden?

you don't. as beeman said, if you follow the instructions there should be no problems. if there are, you'll spot them before applying your product. and, what you are concocting is something that is 'beneficial'.

Originally Posted by Barbee

I agree with you 100% on the soil test. You just need to know what you're dealing with before you can try to fix it. As for the IBM/EM, I just really don't know much about it. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why spraying something on your plants would improve the tilth of your soil...which in my opinion, is the secret to growing good plants. If you add compost that had been composted on your own ground, wouldn't that be introducing the local bacteria you're trying to get?
Does that make sense?

yes barbee, it does make sense. also, with the EM/BIM, which i still am a newbie at experimenting with, is not just sprayed on the plants, but on the soil and around the base of the plants to health and improvement.

Originally Posted by Blueaussi

That's the way it seems to me. However, I think, and I may have this wrong, those who are trying to add EM/BIM organisms are preparing solutions that are supposed to boost the beneficial organisms and prevent growth of pathogens. The solution, when applied to the garden soil is supposed to give a boost to the growth of beneficials , which in turn crowd out and/or inhibit pathogenic organisms.

When plants are sprayed with the EM/BIM solutions, pathogenic organisms are supposedly prevented from infecting the plants because the EM/BIM organisms either grow on the leaves and stems and crowd out any pathogens or because the EM/BIM solution makes the plants so amazingly healthy they fight off the pathogens. At least, that's what I think the theory is, I get a little confused, different practitioners have made different claims.

i'm still working on understanding it too. the way i have seen it is that the EM/BIM aid the soil in being healthy and thus the plants are more healthy and able to fight disease and infection. also, if there is a plant struggling with a virus, disease, the EM/BIM help it immediately in healing itself.