Persimmon (D. kaki) and pomegranate from Caucasis
 

If there any of you at TV how grow Persimmons in open soil? I think this is possible only in warmer climates Zone 8+. I know that you grow your own Virginian kind of persimmon.

So If anybody interested I can send you seeds of Caucasian persimmon (Diospyros kaki) which is very popular here to eat in wintertime. They are from Republic of Georgia (my Motherland) and Azerbaijan where they have been growing eastern type of persimmon since XIX centuary.

Yesterday I've bought 2 kg of delicious Korolek persimmons with very sweet chocolate pulp :wink: Minus 1 kg already :D There are 6-7 seeds in every fruit... Trees are hardy to - 10 C - 15 C.

[img]http://photofile.ru/photo/sionyx/598814/12620100.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.rodniki.bel.ru/derevo_plod/img/diospyros_kaki1_3.jpg[/img]

P.S. Seeds of local pomegranatum from Azerbaijan is also available...

OK.

But probably as you know, persimmon seeds require some months of stratifying in the fridge :wink:

That tree in the picture shows growth pattern
that's unlike wild persimmons in U.S. Midwest ...
Much wider canopy spread and
the fruit set is more widely spaced from one another.
Also the fruit size is much larger than wild persimmons here.
Bark texture appears slightly different as well ...
near as I can see from the picture.
And such a young tree to be so loaded with fruit.

Very nice looking tree and fruit! Good breeding.
If those were to be spread by racoons and foxes
through our Midwestern woods and scrub areas,
that would be wonderful.

PV

Andrey_BY
Two types of persimmons. One you can eat when it's hard (almost seedless), and the other you have to wait until it's very soft otherwise it will leave a strange unpleasantness in you mouth. Which one is the one you are showing?

I grew a persimmon once (zone 6). It gave me a few fruits then it was cut down by mistake.

dcarch

dcarch, actually there are 3 types of Eastern persimmon:
1. One you can eat when it's hard (almost seedless),
2. Other you have to wait until it's very soft otherwise it will leave a strange unpleasantness in your mouth.
3. Mixted - has strange uppleasantless when seedless and sweet when has some seeds after polination.

The one I've got is the third type with the nice chocolate very sweet pulp.

Actually there is one tipe to get away this strange flavour just after several houres of passing such persimmons in the warm (30-40 C) water :wink:

PV, do you want me to send you these persimmon seeds to try? Probably it is hardy enough even for Zone 6b/7a

But usually D.kaki has no both male and female blooms. So need to grow several trees for a good polination...

Andrey,

If you send me some seeds, I will give them to our city arborist
and ask him to stratify them.
He does that with bald cypress each year.
Then I'll get a seedling back from him and
he will plant the rest out in our park reserve
or some other appropriate place.

Do you still have my address?

PV

I discovered one trick for everyone who likes persimmoms:

For the type you have to wait after it becomes very soft to eat, which can take a couple of weeks, all you have to do is to put it in the freezer over-night, thaw it and it's ready.

dcarch

That doesn't look like that young a persimmon tree to me. We had one that was nearly 40 years old that didn't look too different from that one, just a wider spread. It looks very typical for the kaki that my grandmother had in her garden when I was a kid. I wish I had the room for one of those trees. Ours grew very well in the SF bay area.

Bob,

Around here the wild persimmon trees grow tall and spindly
and have small persimmons about the size of an extra large egg yolk.

I imagine the persimmons I see in grocery stores, about the size
of a tennis ball, come from out there on the left coast somewhere
and grow on somewhat different looking trees.

The single persimmon tree I have in my yard,
growing out of a scrubby patch of blackberries,
is about 18 feet tall, has a trunk about 8 - 10 inches
in diameter within 3 feet off the ground, has a canopy
spread of about 6 feet with not nearly as many branches
as what Andrey shows in his photo. The lowest branches
are about 8 feet off the ground maybe a little higher.
It's very typical of wild persimmon trees around here.

PV

[quote=dcarch]I discovered one trick for everyone who likes persimmoms:

For the type you have to wait after it becomes very soft to eat, which can take a couple of weeks, all you have to do is to put it in the freezer over-night, thaw it and it's ready.

dcarch[/quote]

That is the same excectly what usually happen when the first frost comes to Azerbaijan or Georgia (but it is not so often there :) ). But yes, in the fridge the T is about +2+5 C which is also very comfortable to treat persimmon fruits. But it is much quicker and easier in a warm water :wink:

PV, no problem. I have your address, of course. Expect big brown seeds of Korolek persimmon from Belarus (originally Republic of Georgia) within 2 weeks :wink: How about seeds of pomegranatum from Azerbaijan?

[quote=Andrey_BY]PV, no problem. I have your address, of course. Expect big brown seeds of Korolek persimmon from Belarus (originally Republic of Georgia) within 2 weeks :wink: How about seeds of pomegranatum from Azerbaijan?[/quote]

Thank you, Andrey.

Is the Pomegranatum the same as a pomegranite?

I love them, and they are also very heart healthy!

Will they grow here where winters sometime (at least used to) get down to -10*F?
The coldest winter I ever remember here was -21*F one night
with -10*F to -15*F for about a week. That's rare.
Usually -10*F is the lowest we expect,
but lately it's rare to see 0*F anymore.

Do they grow the Pomegranatum out in the open
or should it be protected in the dead of winter?

PV

PV, yup. that American or Texas pesimmon is certainly a different tree and fruit. The Oriental or Chinese persimmon is much more highly selected for use as a fruit crop. Hence, trees were selected to provide a maximum amount of fruiting wood and canopy that can be easily harvested. Hence, short and wide is better than tall and spindly. Our one tree could produce 75 pounds or more of fruit in a season. I learned to cook persimmon into all manner of guises.

There is also a wild Asian type of persimmon called Diospyros lotus or Persimmon Caucasian as we called it. It is wildly grows in Azerbaijan, Georgia, Middle and Central Asia, North of China, S.Korea and Japan. Is has much smaller fruits, but a tree is much more vigorous than Eastern (Oriental) persimmon and usually becomes a very good rootstock for D.kaki. Hardy for Zone 7+!
The fruit has an exquisitely rich flavour when it is fully ripe (almost at the point of going bad), but it is very harsh and astringent before then.

[img]http://www.rodniki.bel.ru/derevo_plod/img/diospyros_lotus2_3.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.floranimal.ru/pages/flora/h/5789.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.aarhuskommune.dk/files/aak/aak/content/images/magistratens_2._afdeling/naturforvaltningen/parkerne/botanisk_have/arboret/11-Diospyros-lotus1.jpg[/img]