Help converting patio to Greenhouse/Sunroom
 

If an existing thread can answer my questions, please point me to it. If not,.... Help.

I have a south-facing 13' x 33' patio that is under a covered deck with 9 1/2' clearance from patio to the deck. I am planning on enclosing the patio and using it for a greenhouse to extend the season and possibly use year-round. I am on a corner lot, so it is visible from the road. Therefore, I can't make it just functional, it has to look nice.

I know I will end up spending quite a bit, so I want to make sure I do it right. My questions:
[LIST][*]There are a whole lot of companies that make sunrooms, enclosures and kits to build sunrooms. Is there a difference in the glass I want for greenhouse from the glass they make the sunroom kits out of?[*]I have natural gas piped to the patio, so heating will not be a problem if I decide to use it in the winter. To use it year-round will I need to supplement lighting or just maintain temperature? (I am in northern Utah - 5280' elevation - 41 degrees latitude)[*]Does the glass that keeps the sunroom cooler in the summer cause any issues when trying to grow plants (this is perhaps the same as the first question)[*]Trade-offs between the cost of better insulated glass panels and heating costs in the winter. (I can probably do the analysis, but experience is valuable, so are recommendation).[*]What are the main "Gotchas" I need to watch out for?[/LIST]
I'm sure there will be other concerns, but I need to know the above to start planning and budgeting.

Thanks in advance for any advice. Tville is quite a place. I've spent quite a few pleasant evenings recently wandering about the place. Wish I had found it years ago.

Dan

[url]http://www.durgan.org/URL/?HKERY[/url] 5 November 2010 Greenhouse on Deck.

I decided to build a large greenhouse on the deck, which doesn’t get much use. The enclosure will be a sun room if appropriate, instead of the canvas structure that use to be there. I have a small 10,000 BTU heater that connects to the barbecue natural gas outlet, so will have some warmth, and will get some use during the Winter months. It took nine days to build by myself, about 72 hours of labor, from 28 of October to 5 November, and cost $1798.63.

Description of the construction. Six, 6 by 6 pillars support the structure. The auxiliary supports are all 2 by 6 spruce planks. Two doors were installed plus a window to ensure reasonably good ventilation. I got the doors free of charge. The slope of the roof is from 8 feet to 7 feet, with a pitch of 1 in 12. Sun is available for about two third of the structure all day. Wood was used to cover the walls where no Sun penetrates. Corrugated SUNTUF UV protected panels was used. It is relatively low cost compared to other coverings, and is almost indestructible. Pictures depict highlights of the method used. Plans were in my head.

Will not be able to answer all the concerns but some items to keep in mind.
Water source/deep slop sink if possible.
Ventilation for humidity in hotter months,fungas and mold issue preventative.
Sun exposure records for winter and summer plant placements.
Existing roof insulation to keep heat in winter to prevent energy loss/cost.Sunlights for added solar exposure.
Underneath porch/deck insulation barrier for cold.
Fixed window panels versus slider/hinged for summer ventilation/heat.
Double wall glazing for icing issues if extreme thermal issues occur.
Ceiling electrical outlets for additional gro lights since winter has minimal solar exposures.
These are some conditions I encounterd helping my brother in law in PA when he enclosed his porch for a greenhouse application.

[QUOTE=Durgan;337289][url]http://www.durgan.org/URL/?HKERY[/url] 5 November 2010 Greenhouse on Deck.[/QUOTE]
HI Durgan, Do you have any photos with your greenhouse filled with plant material?
Jeff

It all depends how much you are willing to spend.. prefab metal water tight glass is probably going to cost you over Twenty grand for a kit installed on a slab. Attaching it to the home will raise your estate taxes .. what else.. umm.. I like Carolyn's 4x4s cemented in the ground and A frame trussess, easy light 2x4 prefab joists on a sturdy plate. Vinyl Plastic heavy duty rolls in sections using 1x2 bridging not only cheaper by far,, easier to install and remove as needed .. Unless you have money to burn initially and don't mind reassessing property taxes for an addition..I'd go the cheaper way,, the second rout still going to set you back a couple grand in my opinion

I will take some photos today.

It has been cold around zero most days for about six weeks or more, so I am very cautious. Heating mat and a natural gas heater to keep the growing area above freezing overnight. The plants must be kept away from the outer walls or they will get frost damage on cold nights. When the sun is shining during the day the doors must be opened to keep the temperature from rising too much. I only use the greenhouse for seed starting, mostly for the sun light.

[QUOTE=dokutaaguriin;337316]HI Durgan, Do you have any photos with your greenhouse filled with plant material?
Jeff[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.durgan.org/URL/?NTVTE[/url] 30 March 2013 Greenhouse
The greenhouse is used for growing plants from seed.The objective to have strong healthy plants for the outdoor garden starting about 15 of April for some seeds and plants. Tomatoes will be planted about 24 of May. The outdoor temperature at night is usually slightly below zero. The little greenhouse keeps the plants above freezing.The real advantage is the sunlight available. The centre of the structure must be used, since the plants may get frost bitten if too close to the outside walls.

I forgot to take in account what region and state for such a project.. Anyway , green house is for seedlings to get them out in big gardens in the ground to make it worth any produce growing.

Hi Dan. First, I must remark that you have an ideal situation with a south-facing area of those dimensions. Very fortunate! You could run a decent-sized business from there.

1) Using regular insulated glass doors will give you excellent performance.

2) I would plan for supplemental lighting. Commercial 8' shop lights would be ideal. But you might get more light than you think in the winter...

3) Not sure about this one...

4) I imagine that your climate would warrant the extra cost, within reason.

5) - If you want it to look nice (and plan to build it yourself), take the time to figure the details down to the 1/16th of an inch on paper before you begin construction. Having a carpenter friend help would be ideal.

- You can save a great deal of money by purchasing used glass door panels and adjusting your plan around the materials you end up with. I paid $40 for a pair of 4' x 6'8" panels (you don't really need the frame), and over time collected several more for free (two of which had the frames :) ).

- Ventilation is essential. Buy an automatic vent so your plants don't fry while you are at work on an unseasonably warm day. Also, plan on having a fan or two for multiple benefits.

- Plan on using thermostatically controlled heaters through the winter. Depending what you are using the greenhouse for, keeping it at a minimum of around 50* F works fine.

Dan, there are some really good books on greenhouses. See what your library has to offer.

You're right about TVille. :)

Any more questions? I would love to follow the progression of this project.

Modeling software for building
 

If you want to build your greenhouse on your computer before building it in your location I found Google is offering a free versiuon of its Sketchup modeling software at the following link.

[URL]http://www.sketchup.com/intl/en/product/newin8.html[/URL]

I'm in the same situation. I need new windows and because of the custom sizes changing a back wall to a sunroom addition isn't much more.

Yes, it is expensive and only one glass is available, an inch thick and super insulated. It will face north. Will there be any benefit to plants against the window in winter?

- Lisa

[QUOTE=greenthumbomaha;523038]I'm in the same situation. I need new windows and because of the custom sizes changing a back wall to a sunroom addition isn't much more.

Yes, it is expensive and only one glass is available, an inch thick and super insulated. It will face north. Will there be any benefit to plants against the window in winter?

- Lisa[/QUOTE]

My glass wall is south facing. Plants to very well throughout the winter. However, tomatoes mature much more slowly in the winter and many don't produce new blossoms from late November through late January (It's weird, but some keep producing blossoms and fruit throughout that time and others produce none). Overall, it's been great.

I'm no expert, but I don't think they will grow well without supplemental lighting if the windows are north facing. I believe you need direct sunlight, which you can't get through a north facing window.

Good luck, whatever you do.
Dan

I'm glad to hear the project was successful. The year round growing bug has bitten you too!

I have an in home consultation set for both windows and a sunroom this Thursday. Either way there is a wait list until May to start, and that is if I decide soon. If this were south facing I would have done it years ago. The home is 23 years old and everyone in the neighborhood has the same repair/replace situation. I've had some windows replaced and they're rotted out already. They used some crappy wood product when the homes were built.

- Lisa

I do have one large and one small sunny window that is south facing and full of plants. The garage faces south which is strongly preferred for resale . Its hilly here and that makes for a slippery ride up the driveway.

How does the UV rating on the glass effect the growing of the plants? Do you need to supplement due to the reduced uv's getting through and the plants need them?

Bumping for the evening crowd. I have the same question as Carolyn.

The photos of local homes I saw in the presentation had mostly low light tropical houseplants. One person had a geranium in bloom. All had snow in the background or a pool to highlight the marketing. The cover photo of the sales brochure had a potting bench in the sunroom and it didn't look local. The sales person didn't know what it was.

Cost wise the sunroom is about 200 per sq ft. Much more than vinyl windows but wood is still pretty pricey. A stand alone greenhouse is prohibited by covenants.

- Lisa