options for cheap organic fertilizer sans composting?
 

greetings to all.

i have an extensive, organic sip/earthtainer-type container garden. a price increase on my stalwart fertilizer from espoma (garden-tone) from $25 to $30 per 40 lb bag has me brainstorming for cheaper alternatives to satiate my plantaloons' hunger. i have also been supplementing with bottled liquid fish & kelp, but that is pricier these days too.

might you be able to help me out? note that i'm looking for container-viable options.

the catch is that i don't want to undertake any kind of composting endeavor. i don't have the time or requisite facilities; besides, i would need a fairly big operation going to produce enough food for my many plantaloons.

i have sourced free dried rabbit manure. is that a good subsitute? i'm assuming it's not nearly as well-rounded in composition as espoma's mix (which is primarily feather meal and chicken poop), so what other cheapo amendments might i consider adding? also, can i make a good tea with it?

what about alfalfa meal? that is pretty cheap at feed stores. thoughts?

another adjunct treatment i'm considering is my own urine. is this disgusting, or brilliant? would i need to let it air out before applying, or can i just pee directly into the reservoir tube?

my biggest concern is making something to cover all nutritional bases. my own urine, for instance, don't come with an n-p-k rating. espoma does, so i know exactly what i'm getting.

thx & cheers

I've heard of using pee, but my family thinks I'm nuts already. :lol:

I found a bunch of amendments at Ace the other day - blood, bone, cottonseed meals, etc. Don't know if they are "not-synthetic-chemicals" organic or just "not inorganic" organic, if that makes sense. But you could mix your own if it suited, or at least price it out.

Have you read the Urban Farms fertilizer thread? It's awesome.


Tl

I would not pee in the tubes....

The main reason is not anything "gross". Your urine is likely way more sterile than any manure product. The main reason is that when it is mixed in with the water the urea in the urine could convert to ammonia not convert to nitrates. The ammonia could build up and 1) smell nasty and 2) hurt the plants.

If you do use urine, pee on the soil. Organisms and other process in the soil convert urea to ammonia to nitrates very quickly, so ammonia does not build up unless it is in a saturated condition.

You could do a little test. Put about a quart water in a bucket and pee in it and let it sit in a dark place for a couple days. Put about a quart of good draining soil in a bucket with holes and pee on it. Let it sit in the same place for a couple days. I bet the bucket with the water will have a strong ammonia smell and the bucket with the soil should have little or no ammonia smell.

Personally, if you are using SIPs and Earthtainers, I would stick to your tried and true fertilizer if you don't want to do any composting. These are pretty intensive grow operations and when you add uncontrolled elements like urine or raw manure, you could be changing a lot of things, like pH that could have a wide ranging impact on nutrient update and so forth. Prepared fertilizer is balanced and tested to maintain the consistency you want in the soil in your containers.

I don't know how much fertilizer you are using, but you could try easing back on the fertilizer a bit and see how that goes. Most of us over fertilize a bit. Do a few with containers with 1/2 the normal amount for a few weeks and see if you notice a difference. My guess is you will be able buy the product you like and trust, but save money by needing to use less of it.

The values for urine NPK depend on the diet; the range is
N 10-18
P 1-2
K 3-5
according to
[url]http://www.permaculture.org.nz/node/315[/url]
which also discusses some research.

For use on plants, I've read urine should be diluted 5x to 10x (urine is 45% N, according to one source). I've used it occasionally -- it seems such a waste to flush away a good N source and then go out and buy another one!

I use alfalfa pellets in the bottom of the hole when I'm planting tomatoes.

Steve Solomon has a recipe for Complete Organic Fertilizer in his latest book. Previous versions are also available -- easy to google.

I've also used fermented nettle tea and comfrey tea.

what is a plantaloon?

[QUOTE=tlintx;351957]
Have you read [B][I]the Urban Farms fertilizer thread?[/I][/B] It's awesome.


Tl[/QUOTE]

I can't seem to find a link - got one??? :)

[URL="http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=27229"]Urban Farms Texas Tomato Food[/URL] ---

[url]http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=27929[/url] ---

[QUOTE=tlintx;352113][URL="http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=27229"]Urban Farms Texas Tomato Food[/URL] ---

[URL]http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=27929[/URL] ---[/QUOTE]

:aprd:

Fertilizing Tips
 

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][B]Fertilizer frequency: Periodic or Constant Liquid Feed?[/B]

Posted March 16, 2012 by jrpetersinc in [URL="mhtml:{C3B36BF3-CCE3-4D2D-830A-40B8E7B8FF36}mid://00000020/!x-usc:http://jrpeters.wordpress.com/category/fertilizing-tips/"]Fertilizing Tips[/URL]
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[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][URL="mhtml:{C3B36BF3-CCE3-4D2D-830A-40B8E7B8FF36}mid://00000020/!x-usc:http://jrpeters.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/fertilizer-frequency-periodic-or-constant-liquid-feed/#more-227"]http://jrpeters.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/fertilizer-frequency-periodic-or-constant-liquid-feed/#more-227[/URL][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Guide To Fertilizer Dosages[/COLOR][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][URL="mhtml:{C3B36BF3-CCE3-4D2D-830A-40B8E7B8FF36}mid://00000020/!x-usc:http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/guides/Guide_Fertilizer_Dosages.html"]http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/guides/Guide_Fertilizer_Dosages.html[/URL][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=2]Combination Fertilizer Programs[/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][URL="mhtml:{C3B36BF3-CCE3-4D2D-830A-40B8E7B8FF36}mid://00000020/!x-usc:http://www.greenhousegrower.com/article/13414/combination-fertilizer-programs"]http://www.greenhousegrower.com/article/13414/combination-fertilizer-programs[/URL][/SIZE][/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][B]Homemade Fertilizer Tea Recipes[/B]

[I][B]Make these easy liquid fertilizers — then sit back and watch your seedlings and plants thrive![/B][/I]
[I]By Barbara Pleasant[/I]
Add the amount of dry ingredients shown in the chart below to a 5-gallon bucket, then add water to fill, and steep for three days. Strain or decant the tea and dilute as shown below. To make fertilizer tea from urine, simply dilute the urine in 20 parts water, and it’s ready to use. Water plants with these solutions no more than once every two weeks.
Check out [URL="mhtml:{C3B36BF3-CCE3-4D2D-830A-40B8E7B8FF36}mid://00000020/!x-usc:http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/liquid-fertilizers-zm0z11zhun.aspx"]Free, Homemade Liquid Fertilizers[/URL] for more information about liquid fertilizers and the many benefits of making your own.
[B]Type[/B] [B]Amount[/B] [B]Dilute[/B] Dried chicken manure with wood shavings1/5 bucket1:1Seaweed1/5 bucketnoneFresh grass clippings2/3 bucket1:1Urine1:20

[URL="mhtml:{C3B36BF3-CCE3-4D2D-830A-40B8E7B8FF36}mid://00000020/!x-usc:http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/liquid-fertilizers-zm0z11zhun.aspx#axzz2UoEluT8a"]http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/liquid-fertilizers-zm0z11zhun.aspx#axzz2UoEluT8a[/URL]
[URL="mhtml:{C3B36BF3-CCE3-4D2D-830A-40B8E7B8FF36}mid://00000020/!x-usc:http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/homemade-fertilizer-tea-recipes-zm0z11zkon.aspx#axzz2UoEluT8a"]http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/homemade-fertilizer-tea-recipes-zm0z11zkon.aspx#axzz2UoEluT8a[/URL]
Read more: [URL="mhtml:{C3B36BF3-CCE3-4D2D-830A-40B8E7B8FF36}mid://00000020/!x-usc:http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/homemade-fertilizer-tea-recipes-zm0z11zkon.aspx#ixzz2UoFiQ7ZG"]http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/homemade-fertilizer-tea-recipes-zm0z11zkon.aspx#ixzz2UoFiQ7ZG[/URL]


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[QUOTE=BennB;352000]If you do use urine, pee on the soil. Organisms and other process in the soil convert urea to ammonia to nitrates very quickly, so ammonia does not build up unless it is in a saturated condition.[/QUOTE]

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=navy]Strange, whether you apply it on the top, or from the bottom just what is the difference. The Organisms are thru-out the media.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000080]Besides plants feed on the ION of of the Nitorgen atom, which can be from either a Organic or InOrganic source.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

it would take some effort for me to burn my plants by organic means (or at least, it hasn't happened yet). i may start peeing in an old 5-gallon water cooler jug, and once i have an appreciable amount, dilute the rest with water for feeding. i tend to agree with mr. sip gro-tubs; since liquid is wicked right up from the reservoir into the soil, wouldn't the method of application make little difference? either way, the whole of the container will be permeated eventually. my tomatoes slurp up the entire contents of the reservoir every two days. bennb, if anything, i am currently underfertilizing my tomatoes--they are ravenously hungry and thirsty and i always feel like i'm playing catch-up with them.

the only thing that worries me is that urine is rather salty. if i wanted a fatal buildup of salts, i'd just use synthetic fertilizers instead.

thanks to all for the informative links! i will look into that urban farms texas tomato food. i want to see if it is available locally and if i can source any coupons or otherwise get a steal-of-a-deal on it.

Stvrob, "plantaloons" is a portmanteau of "plants" and "pantaloons" that i coined for some reason. it's a term of endearment for my garden plants. i call the seedling plants "seed babies" and the adult plants "plantaloons."

the garden and i have our own language. we communicate.

You are right. If your if your plants are going through water that quickly, it likely won't matter how you get it there. And, as others pointed out, the same amount of urea converts to NH4++ regardless of if it goes on the soil or into water....

...but the difference is what happens once it converts to usable nitrogen. In soil, the process happens with the assistance of enzymes that get the urea to NH4++ pretty quicky where it binds to soil particles.

Urea also converts to NH4++ in water, but without any soil particles to bind to, it can undergo hydrolysis and coverts back to NH3 gas (ammonia), which is why you can smell ammonia if you do the pee in a bucket of water test and you don't smell it the pee on the soil test.

So, as long as you are diluting it well and it is not sitting for a long time in the water reservoir, you are right, there might not be any problems.

Let us all know what you ended up doing and how it all worked out!

Recommended rates of Urine for growing
 

[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=red]Most gardeners that I, know that use Human Urine for growing use it in a diluted form.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#ff0000]They use a ratio of 1:15, or 1 Qt's Urine to 15 Qt's Water.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=#ff0000]Terry[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

Numerous studies show urine is a very effective natural fertilizer. I have used it and it works...here is a link with some info on one study.

[URL="http://www.inspirationgreen.com/four-times-the-size-of-an-unfertilized-tomato.html"]http://http://www.inspirationgreen.com/four-times-the-size-of-an-unfertilized-tomato.html[/URL]

You will have an odour problem using urine. this is the ick factor I would be concerned about, not using urine which is a fine source of nitrogen diluted 1:10 but it stinks to high heaven and there's no getting around that. Undiluted, it certainly will burn young plants as well. \Think dog pee spots on the lawn as comparison.
I would go with your already sourced out free dried rabbit manure if it was my container garden.
If you do go with the urine, don't tell your dinner guests... although you might not have to tell them if they get a whif
I am wondering What have you got against composting? it's not difficult and doesn't take up much space.
For my containers (which are just large pots with no reservoir) I use 1/3 compost to 2/3 peat based potting soil and monthly applications of granular organic fertilizer which is blood and bone meal based. Works for me and nobody's allowed to pee on my mato's. Matter of fact I would probably kill anybody who tried. :)
KarenO