To Till or Not To Till?
 

I'm working on a raised bed. It is 18' x 60'. We built a frame out of real 1 x 4"s. The soil under the fame is red clay that had Johnson Grass and other annoying thick weeds growing in it. (It was [B]very[/B] hard to mow) Part of the reason for this raised bed is to get rid of the Johnson Grass.

Back in February, I burned off this area. Then, as time and weather allowed, my son moved loam soil into the frame. So, right now, there is four inches of loam mixed with oak leaves sitting on top of the clay soil. This brings up my question:

If this bed was yours, would you till the soil deep enough to incorporate some of the clay soil? or leave it like it is?

Mixing in the leaves with the soil you added may not have been the best idea. Maybe it won't matter, though.

I don't think your roots are going to penetrate the clay. I think they will just grow sideways in the soft soil you added. Building up that 4" with manure and other organic matter should be a top priority.

As for tilling, everyone's soil is different. Mine is fine to till several inches down, as long as I add about the same corresponding amount of manure on top. If you do till, all you have to do is keep the top mulched with something like wood chips, and then you won't have to till again. Even black plastic mulch will do the same thing; the soil under mine when I pick it up is always nice and soft. The rain doesn't hit it to compact it.

I would be concerned about tilling through the clay, now that it has soil above it it might remain perpetually too moist to work.

Till the first year, but only if its necessary. after that tillage is counter productive.

DO NOT TILL INTO THAT RED CLAY!!!!!!!
That Johnson grass spreads by seeds and rhizomes.
All you will do is make it worse.
They should dig that Johnson guy up and toss him in the ocean for bringing this stuff over here from Turkey.:evil:

The best you can do is mulch the bed and every time you see a blade come up cut it off.

I frigging hate the stuff.:x

I am slowly but surly getting rid of mine.

Worth

Let the worms do your tilling. Of course that means it is important to keep the worms fed and the habitat for them comfortable. But I agree somewhat with snugglekitten. There are cases when a 1 time tilling is fine. I personally wouldn't, but everyone's situation varies. Tilling in some organic material then adding some worms and compost and mulch on top may in some cases help to "kick start" the garden. Then no till after. Cases where that would be a benefit include soils with a bad compaction layer or stubborn hard pan where biological methods of regenerating soil is difficult. But doing it year after year would only make the hard pan worse over time. You could even double dig 1 year and mix large quantities of organic matter very deep. Lots of work and lots of compost/ manure inputs needed. But that kind of "kick start" can be helpful sometimes.

PS: Worth is right. Johnsongrass is a tough one. If you do double dig or till it. I recommend screening the soil to remove absolutely as much as possible.

I have Johnson Grass so bad that the roots look like crab legs off the Chinese Buffet:
[url]http://i.imgur.com/AlamQPL.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i.imgur.com/BJCTWXi.jpg[/url]

They are kinda pretty.

I got rid of a bunch of mine by digging it up during a drought and letting the roots lay in the sun.
It was back when every day was way over 100F.

Worth

[QUOTE=Redbaron;460604]Let the worms do your tilling. Of course that means it is important to keep the worms fed and the habitat for them comfortable. But I agree somewhat with snugglekitten. There are cases when a 1 time tilling is fine. I personally wouldn't, but everyone's situation varies. Tilling in some organic material then adding some worms and compost and mulch on top may in some cases help to "kick start" the garden. Then no till after. Cases where that would be a benefit include soils with a bad compaction layer or stubborn hard pan where biological methods of regenerating soil is difficult. But doing it year after year would only make the hard pan worse over time. You could even double dig 1 year and mix large quantities of organic matter very deep. Lots of work and lots of compost/ manure inputs needed. But that kind of "kick start" can be helpful sometimes.

PS: Worth is right. Johnsongrass is a tough one. If you do double dig or till it. I recommend screening the soil to remove absolutely as much as possible.[/QUOTE]


You have to till once if you are in some godforsaken rocky, rooty area, but after that its like praying for rain, actually worse.

This is a good [URL="http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1380&context=theses"]paper[/URL] on the topic and will do justice until I can remember the name of the "father of no-till" guy and his book, better than the skinny Japanese feller.

I remember reading somewhere online about Johnson Grass being prohibited in some states. The following link isn't where I read that, but it does agree with that lost link: [URL]https://www.gri.msstate.edu/ipams/species.php?CName=Johnsongrass[/URL]

" [B]Regulations
[/B]Johnsongrass is Noxious in Arkansas, California, Delaware, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Utah, and West Virginia. It is a C List noxious weed in California and Colorado, a “B” designated weed in Oregon, and Class A noxious weed in Washington. It is prohibited in Ohio, quarantined in Oregon and Washington. Johnsongrass is regulated as a non-native plant species in South Dakota. It can be problematic in all MidSouth states, especially on roadsides."

Update on the author, Faulkner, [I]Plowman’s Folly[/I]. My favorite Ag book.

How deep is the soil your son put in the raised bed? If it were mine, I would not till the soil now. Doing so will cause more Johnson Grass that you can imagine. This fall I would sow the entire bed with tillage radishes. They will grow into the clay, and when rotted, they will supply the bed with some good organic matter. I am not an organic gardener, but tillage radishes help the soil.

The soil he put in the garden is at least 4 inches deep in most of the garden. On the back side of the garden, the added loam soil is 10 inches deep. It's that deep to fill an old dry-wash area. We added a drainage ditch that diverts the rainwater from this area now.

Guys, I agree with all of you on not tilling into the clay. Actually, I'm not going to till at all. The soil was spread out in the garden today and the last 11 x 18 feet tomorrow or
Monday.

The 4 inch boards are temporary. We will be replacing them this winter with cut stone. We needed a place to plant vegetables that need to be planted now. The boards were faster, and the stone are at the back of our property where the clay is too wet to drive the tractor on right now.

Thank you for your opinions and advice,
Robert