Ray, question on propagules- it is less that actual spores account? as it could be just bits and pieces of spores?

Interestingly, for the last hew years, I have Inoculated my Ornamental Shrubs and Trees when planting I have not lost a new planting since I started doing that. This was my first year to do it with my Tomatoes. I have big beautiful plants, but the fruit density is not a plus in this one year experiment. Not sure if it is related or not.

[QUOTE=Lindalana;471323]Ray, question on propagules- it is less that actual spores account? as it could be just bits and pieces of spores?[/QUOTE]

Propagules would include any fungal material that is capable of infecting the roots. That includes spores, infected root fragments and hyphae.
Infected root fragments and hyphae are much faster at inoculation but have a shorter shelf life. Spores are slower at inoculation but have a long shelf life.
A mycorrhizal inoculant with a high propagule count will give the best chance at infecting roots.

[URL]http://www.lebanonturf.com/education/Reports-of-non-viable-mycorrhizal-products[/URL]

Hi Dutch! Thanks for your offer of plants for the sale. We will be very happy to take you up on your offer. The proceeds of the sale go to purchase materials to maintain our 3 church gardens. We have built our 3rd one this year. All produce is grown by volunteers, harvested, washed, labeled and delivered to the community food pantry. Our produce is very appreciated and we appreciate your donation of plants these last few years. It is people like you that make this possible. Incidently, we have planted some of your tomato plants in the church garden and they have been very healthy and productive. Also any plants from the sale that are left over, are donated to two other community gardens in the Milwaukee/Waukesha area. So, thanks again so very much!!! If you PM me possible times to pick them up, I will get back to you. Thanks again!!

[SIZE=2]Well that side-by-side comparison convinced me. I just ordered some[/SIZE][SIZE=2] Mycorrhizae Root Fungi Endo Mycorrhiza Mycorrhizal but the Vivaroots! variety. Wish I'd done this from the start. Thanks for the 'science experiment'.
[/SIZE]

Dutch, I found your experiment very interesting. What did you think that your results would be like prior to the experiment and what were your feelings looking at the results? Any surprises?

Great job on growing so many plants to help others. There are so many that need help these days.

If you need more pots, just holler.

[QUOTE=Dutch;471158]This is six groups of Celebrity tomato plants with 36 plants in each group. From left to right they were inoculated with;

Group one, thehydrosource’s Mycorrhizae Root Fungi Endo Mycorrhiza
Group two, Kelp4less’ Endo Mycorrhizae
Group three, Natural Industries’ Actinovate
Group four, Organic Labs’ Mycostim
Groups five and six, Control, no inoculants
[ATTACH]48837[/ATTACH]
Dutch

P.S. Groups four, five and six were sent to Oklahoma for disaster relief.[/QUOTE]

I would like to know what type of soil was used. Sterile potting soil would show increases in growth with the use of inoculates, but what about natural healthy soil that already has fungi and bacteria?

I got my mycos after I had already planted over ha
F my tomatoes. Is there some way I can drench around them to innoculate?
I bought a powder off Amazon with excellent reviews. Kind of generic looking package, don't rememebr the brand name. I also bought Actinovate to combine with it.

Tracy, I am going to the vet supply store and buying the largest syringe and needle to inject the rootballs on the tomatoes that are not planted yet. I planted too deep for that to work unless there is a 6 inch probe for the end of the syringe as I planted deep.

[QUOTE=Tapout;471600]I would like to know what type of soil was used. Sterile potting soil would show increases in growth with the use of inoculates, but what about natural healthy soil that already has fungi and bacteria?[/QUOTE]
Tapout, I used Fox Farms Light Warrior. This is from their website page on it, "Light Warrior® is the ultimate grow medium for seed starting and transplanting. And it isn’t just a grow medium—we pack it with beneficial microbes to stimulate root growth and enhance fertilizer uptake, humic acid to help in seed germination, and earthworm castings to help plants thrive." [URL]http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/index.php/item/light-warrior-agro-ponic-grow-medium.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=Tracydr;471601]I got my mycos after I had already planted over ha
F my tomatoes. Is there some way I can drench around them to innoculate?
I bought a powder off Amazon with excellent reviews. Kind of generic looking package, don't rememebr the brand name. I also bought Actinovate to combine with it.[/QUOTE]
Tracy, Both products need to come in contact with the roots. I would gentle move soil away from around the stem of the plants and apply them to the top of the root ball. It has been my experience that Actinovate applied to plant roots by it's self can actual slow plant development for a week or so, but that doesn't happen when applying an endo product with it at the same time. You are wise to use both. ;)
Dutch

[QUOTE=4season;471611]Tracy, I am going to the vet supply store and buying the largest syringe and needle to inject the rootballs on the tomatoes that are not planted yet. I planted too deep for that to work unless there is a 6 inch probe for the end of the syringe as I planted deep.[/QUOTE]

I bought a cheap marinade injector at a dollar store some years ago for just that kind of job.

So I was using mycogrow ([url]http://www.fungi.com/product-detail/product/mycogrow-soluble-1-oz.html[/url]). This was based on an [URL="http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=17113&highlight=biota"]earlier experiment by Raybo[/URL]. Its costlier than vivaroots. They list a lot of types of fungi and bacteria, but do not list number of spores or propagules that I could see. So may be time to switch to vivaroots. Looks like I am following whatever Ray is recommending around these parts :)

[QUOTE=tnkrer;471627]So I was using mycogrow ([URL]http://www.fungi.com/product-detail/product/mycogrow-soluble-1-oz.html[/URL]). This was based on an [URL="http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=17113&highlight=biota"]earlier experiment by Raybo[/URL]. Its costlier than vivaroots. They list a lot of types of fungi and bacteria, but do not list number of spores or propagules that I could see. So may be time to switch to vivaroots. Looks like I am following whatever Ray is recommending around these parts :)[/QUOTE]

I don't know why fungi.com doesn't list the number of propagules in Mycogrow but I remember reading somewhere that it had a total of a little over 20000 propagules lb. of Endomycorrhizal fungi. That would be about 44 propagules/gram.
A combination inoculant like Mycogrow with mycorrhizal fungi, PGPR bacteria and Trichoderma are a little more expensive because of the loads of added beneficial organisms you are getting.
I think it is very important to prime the roots with PGPR bacteria in particular since they have a great effect on nutrient cycling, producing plant growth promoting compounds, protecting the roots from pathogens as well as inducing systemic resistance in the plant overall. Trichoderma fungi are useful for some the same reasons and also protecting the plant roots from pathogenic fungi if you have that problem in your soils.
Dutch used Fox Farms Light Warrior which like the other Fox Farms soils has some mycorrhizal fungi and PGPR bacteria already in the mix which is a plus.
If you started out with a so-called sterile mix then inoculating with a combination inoculant or a straight bacterial inoculant is a good idea. If you have MycoGrow, Great White, Myco Madness or some other combination inoculant then at least do a root dip at transplant.

One important note on using mycorrhizal fungi that needs to be stressed when it comes to fertilizers, do not use a fertilizer with [B]high available Phosphorous[/B] as it will inhibit mycorrhizal colonization. This is not usually a problem with organic growers but more of an issue with folks using synthetic fertilizers. Cutting back on your synthetic fertilizer dilution to 1/4 strength for seedlings should be OK in most cases. Also avoid using chlorinated or chloramined water.

vivaroots dont seem to have PGPR bacteria. What product do you use to provide PGPR bacteria to the roots then?

[QUOTE=RayR;471615]I bought a cheap marinade injector at a dollar store some years ago for just that kind of job.[/QUOTE]
Great idea the injector or large syringe. I have plenty of both and will give them a try next weekend.
Oh, I've been using scummy pond water this year and my seedlings have gotten enormous. The last one's to go in the ground were over 3 feet but not at all spindly! No fertilizer at all until after being planted for a couple of weeks. I gave one kelp/fish feeding 2 weeks ago and the blooms popped up everywhere. I have a Gary O'Sena with at least 10 blooms in one cluster!