Shallots & Shallot Seeds (not sets)
 

Two years ago I ordered French Red Shallot sets from two different vendors.

One vendor sent me long, pointed sets that were still joined in clumps of three of four at their base.

The other sent me larger round lumpy things that were a darker red, some also still joined.

Looking for on-line images for French Red Shallots I came up with some that resembled both, plus more that looked nothing like either one. So I planted both in the fall and the following summer harvested a decent amount of each, both looking just like what I had planted.

I replanted a smaller amount of both versions last fall. The long ones didn't survive the winter. The round ones did and grew just like they did the year before, except two put out huge flower stalks. I left them and they both bloomed, but then one broke off, the other I cut last week right before I pulled the shallots. Now I'm sitting looking at this partially dried thing full of seeds and trying figure out if they're worth saving and planting.

I still don't know if this or the long one are the "true" shallots, and if not, what are they? The information I've found on line so far is either very vague or very contradictory.

One site says true shallots do not produce seed. Another says that all shallots will go to seed in year two.

Some tell me that all shallots that throw flowers are hybrids and seeds won't grow true or are sterile; then I find sites with instructions on how to harvest and grow shallot seeds with no mention of hybrids.

And yet another site says that if shallot seeds grow, they will only produce one bulb, like an onion. So, does that mean they're hybrids?

Last year I was gifted a pack of seeds from an unknown variety of shallots which flowered. The tray the shallot seedling were sharing with my onion seedling was blown over this spring, and I couldn't tell what was what when I planted them out. They are all close to harvest time, but all I see are single bulbs--nothing seems to have divided which makes me think the hybrid single bulb theory might be correct.

Anyone ever grow shallots from saved seed? What happened?

I'm doing a germination test on a few seeds to at least rule out the sterile theory.

I have read that true shallots will produce seed and it is probably virus that inhibits flowering in some cases. The french gray shallot may be different from most shallots. I have a few favorite red shallots Sante and Camelot that flower and set seed freely.

You'll typically get a single bulb that if replanted will divide the second year.

[QUOTE=swamper;582711]I have read that true shallots will produce seed and it is probably virus that inhibits flowering in some cases. The french gray shallot may be different from most shallots. I have a few favorite red shallots Sante and Camelot that flower and set seed freely.

You'll typically get a single bulb that if replanted will divide the second year.[/QUOTE]



Thanks for the input! I was wondering if they behaved like garlic rounds grown from bulbils and usually not divide until the second year.

A friend and I ordered a yellow shallot from William Dam this year - I planted mine later so mine are not as far along. But I was in her garden yesterday and hers are all gone to seed. I was amazed to see that, and I sure hope the seeds are viable because a much easier way to increase your stock..

I have read, about 'multipliers' in general I think (or maybe it was just for potato onions) , that if you plant a small bulb you will get one large one, but if you plant a large bulb you will get many small ones. Sooo... the idea would be to plant the large to get small ones for planting, and plant the small to get large ones for eating.

Maybe true shallots don't follow the same pattern. :?!?:

The seeds did germinate so I'm waiting for the flower head to dry before I harvest the rest of the seeds from it. I'm going to start a good number of them next year and see what they do!

All shallots can produce seed. Some do so very rarely, others very frequently. There are seed selected varieties, and there are hybrids. I agree with the virus accumulation idea.

Plant the seed and see what you get. I would wait for second year before deciding what to keep or eat. Some will do a big round the first year and you want to see how they divide.

[QUOTE=ilex;583571]All shallots can produce seed. Some do so very rarely, others very frequently. There are seed selected varieties, and there are hybrids. I agree with the virus accumulation idea.



Plant the seed and see what you get. I would wait for second year before deciding what to keep or eat. Some will do a big round the first year and you want to see how they divide.[/QUOTE]


That's exactly what I'm planning to do. Thanks for confirming I'm on the right track!

I have grown shallots from seed. About 3/4 of them sent up seed stalks the second year. I culled them. I saved bulbs for replanting from the plants that didn't go to seed. Cause I want shallots that rarely, if ever make seed.

When I was growing onion seed this summer, about 1/4 of the plants didn't make seeds, they just divided and made huge bulbs. Ha!!! Potato Onions!!!! I wasn't intending to grow potato onions, but since I was paying attention, and liked what I saw, I might as well grow them now that they are in my garden.

[QUOTE=joseph;583818]I have grown shallots from seed. About 3/4 of them sent up seed stalks the second year. I culled them. I saved bulbs for replanting from the plants that didn't go to seed. Cause I want shallots that rarely, if ever make seed.

When I was growing onion seed this summer, about 1/4 of the plants didn't make seeds, they just divided and made huge bulbs. Ha!!! Potato Onions!!!! I wasn't intending to grow potato onions, but since I was paying attention, and liked what I saw, I might as well grow them now that they are in my garden.[/QUOTE]


I'm kicking myself for pulling my accidental potato onions two years ago.:(

Worth

So what happened to your shallot seeds? Did they grow as only one shallot? And nice and big?
I can't seem to find much info about this anywhere. I was thinking to plant from bought seed next year instead of the shallot, because I can space them closer. All shallots that you buy look nice and round, which suggests they didn't come from sets, which results in a 'tapered near the roots look.', So I'm thinking their method must be more productive (commercial growers always are). I have very limited space, so I try to optimize.
Also, how close did you space them?
This year I used some shallots I got from my aunt, they grew pretty well, most of her sets had visible cut scapes inside, however I didn't get any on my plants, it must probably be related to storage conditions and growing conditions as well.

I only started a few seeds and they are out in the garden growing amongst the rest of the onions. They're at least a month away from harvest time.

I also planted some of the shallots I harvested last year (because they were good and worth growing), and every single one tried to flower again. This time I cut all the flower stocks off.

I'll report back once I see what I get.

I never did post back last year... all the red onions and shallots got mixed together last year, so I had no idea what was what. Nothing divided n any way, so we just ate them all.

This year I planted no onion seeds, just shallot seeds. Seven germinated and were planted out. They grew normally, sent up no flower stalks, and surprisingly four of the six divided! I never expected this in the first yeR grown from seeds! The other three grew the expected single rounds. We're in a wet stretch of weather so I decided to pull them tonight. I got two sets of triplets and two sets of twins.

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180727/c2c9e00b584112e9ed7eca250d2e4858.jpg[/IMG]

I also planted back seven of the shallot sets from last year. Five made it, and all five sent up a flower stalk again. Since I've already been through this with them for a few years already, I cut the stalks early and harvested decent sized bulbs. I'll probably plant a couple next year to refresh the seed supply since they seem to like growing flowers.

Next year I'm going to plant back the ones grown from seed and see what they do.

Those are nice looking!



I'm also growing shallots from seed this year. These were a commercial variety of shallots, planted as bulbs, that produced seed, and someone saved and sent them to the swap. No idea if they were a hybrid or not, so I thought it might be a mix of onion/shallot segregating, but there are more dividing than not! :D I'm pretty stoked about that. Still a long while to harvest though.
It's also possible that going through winter in June has triggered them to do the second year thing...

Those look nice and healthy. When did you start the seeds? I started mine indoors back in February and planted them out in late April, I believe.

I guess shallots are not like garlic and don't need several years before they'll divide. It really is a pleasant surprise.

These were started in February too, and were planted out during warm weather in mid May. But we then had a spell of really nasty weather lasting nearly a month, including numerous frosts and even snow on the ground in June. My poor little seedlings got smaller instead of growing, and I did lose a few, although most survived. So they've only been getting bigger for the past month or so.

I should probably give them a boost with some fish ferts. They are mostly a nice dark green though. It would be nice to get some full sized shallots.


Are shallots usually ready earlier than onions, or are they about the same? I'm hoping to get to my friend's farm this weekend, and I will compare the progress here with the onions that we weeded last time.

I didn't keep notes, but IIRC the shallots always needed a little bit longer than the onions. Given how green the tops were, I could have left them in the ground a bit longer, but there at the stage where wet conditions will start causing rot which then seems to lead to insect damage.

I hope the rest of your season normalizes. We had cold weather into May this year and I have quite s few things (especially tomatoes, cucumbers and zucchini) way behind schedule.

Thanks, FD. I will try not to rush the harvest then, give them time. Yes, the weather has put harvest times way out of kilter - I just harvested peas that were planted under row cover in April! :lol: And tomatoes were well behind the normal timeline. We have had hotter than normal weather in July, but also more cloud and rain than is usual this time of year. The heat produced a big flush of ripening tomatoes and of course, all the lettuce and the arugula promptly bolted. Why is it such a challenge to have all the ingredients for a good salad at the same time? :?
The ten day into August is looking normal for temp and precip, so I expect the usual challenge with garlic and onions, to give them enough time to mature before it turns cool and wet.
I'm really looking forward to have some shallots!! :D:wait:

This year I grew Zebrune (echalion in french, since they don't allow the name echallot for it anymore). It's unfortunately a 100% onion that goes around as shallot for some reason, the good thing is that it has good production potential and seems to handle the heat very well, and keeps green a long time.
Supposed to be very good for storing as well. Texture is hard and dense (which is closer to shallot than onion), taste is better than an onion, will have to make a more direct comparison with my old trusty shallots, but on the balcony the zebrunes did much better in little space.
The disadvantage is that they started very very weak from seed, not sure if all onions are like this, literally in 3 months you get a scrawny little plant that can't stay upright and is about 2 mm in diameter.

Zipcode, the onions leeks and shallots I've started from seed are all pretty small to begin with. The practice of giving them a "haircut" periodically does seem to help with thickening the stems, and of course feeding some high N ferts (fish emulsion in my case).
I do start them in a mass planted flat, and I've come to the conclusion that spacing makes a big difference to the size of your start. I experimented with onions one year and with my leeks this year, that I took a few out of the crowded quarters and potted them up into 9-cells to give them extra space. The difference it makes after transplant is really noticeable. If I had enough lights, I would pot all of them up into cells at some stage. Maybe I'll try potting up and out into the greenhouse in March or April instead, as that would harden them off too for a plantout in may.

I agree that the spacing and trimming make a huge difference when starting from seeds.

I've taken to using the inserts for 1020 trays (I think they are about 3x3??) and planting nine seeds in each, evenly spaced out. They are started in February, given diluted fertilizer every other watering, and get haircuts every few weeks. By late April when I plant out they have at least pea-sized bulbs and pretty thick stalks for their size due to the haircuts.

Zipcode, this pic is what happened with my leek experiment. The three rows in the middle were potted up into individual cells, and this is how they look after some time in the field. On the sides, the ones from the mass planting can't catch up. Same thing happened with the onions, the ones from cells were bigger plants and in the end made bigger onions. I guess I should have done the same with shallots :twisted: It would definitely be worthwhile if you have the space. :)

Just to update my shallot seed experiment: the shallots continued to divide and got quite bushy but they didn't bulb. Here are pics from September - I dug one just to see what they were like as scallions (nice garlicky flavor but kind of hard textured). They had really made deep roots and every seed produced a half dozen or so divisions. Since the roots were so firm I decided it would be best to leave them and hope they would overwinter.


I intended to mulch them but got unexpectedly busy in the fall and wasn't able to mulch any of the alliums. Then we had a strange winter with a lot of rain storms instead of snow, turning to snow or flash freezing into ice sheets at the end, and then weeks of very cold temperatures in the minus teens C. The shallot bed was covered in a sheet of ice, and I figured they were goners.


This weekend we had a thaw and I took a walk around the garden with my friend and her son. I was lamenting the fate of the shallots and pointed to the end of the bed where the ice sheet was just starting to recede.... holy cow! There they were, an inch through the ground!! :shock::twisted:
So they clearly made it through winter just fine, but the question now, will they survive our "spring"? :o They are really precocious to be up this time of year. Nights are dipping to -7C (-19 F) this week, so well below "frost". My mom suggested to cover them with boughs, so that's what I did. I hope it's good enough...

I'll update my Egyptian Walking Onion seed trial. I sowed 3 seeds, 1 germinated, and grew very weakly for a few weeks. It then began to slowly die. The autopsy revealed that there was only green growth above the soil line, with basically no roots below.


That was just an indoor trial. The rest of the seeds will be sown outdoors.

[QUOTE=Tormato;730419]I'll update my Egyptian Walking Onion seed trial. I sowed 3 seeds, 1 germinated, and grew very weakly for a few weeks. It then began to slowly die. The autopsy revealed that there was only green growth above the soil line, with basically no roots below.


That was just an indoor trial. The rest of the seeds will be sown outdoors.[/QUOTE]

My EWO grow like weeds now since I leave them to bulb. :) Last year I think they went to over a meter and bulbed. If yours ever die out let me know. :)

I always wondered if shallotts can be grown from seed. Now i know.
I am growing some from store bought shallotts. They have popped up nicely. I wonder if they will bulb before it gets too hot.
To me shallotts are just a variety of dividing onion.. i have not noticed any garlic flavor in them. But i like them. Sometimes i don,t need a big onion, a shallott will do
So this is an experiment for me . I will try to let some bolt so that i can collect seeds.

I tried to germinate some more of the shallot seeds this year, but they are apparently too old as I had zero germination. I did plant back some of the shallot bulbs last fall and if history repeats itself, they will send up flower stalks and I'll be able to collect fresh seeds.

And I realized about two months ago that I never planted back any of the ones I grew from seeds last year when I found them hanging in a different location in the basement... guess I'm starting the cycle all over again assuming I get viable seeds this summer.

Nights are dipping to -7C (-19 F)

Bower, you should have said +19 F.

[QUOTE=LDiane;730501]Nights are dipping to -7C (-19 F)

Bower, you should have said +19 F.[/QUOTE]
Whoops, you're right! Thanks. :)
Did you have any experience with shallot hardiness in spring?
(or what we call "spring" :cry::P)


Seriously, they are up well before anything else including garlic and chives - the toughest allium of all. So I'm thinking they are adapted to a shorter winter than what we must endure...

[QUOTE=Gardeneer;730487]
To me shallotts are just a variety of dividing onion.. i have not noticed any garlic flavor in them. But i like them. Sometimes i don,t need a big onion, a shallott will do
So this is an experiment for me . I will try to let some bolt so that i can collect seeds.[/QUOTE]

The seeds you find can be for actual shallot or for fake shallot (sometimes called banana shallot).
To get them to bolt, you need certain conditions, since they just multiply when everything is right. Like starting them when it's too cold, or heat followed by cold, something like that.
I also can't say I find anything garlicky about them, but my favourites for fresh eating are the roundish ones which are somewhat pink inside. For example Red Sun (really excellent). The yellow round ones have poor taste (Yellow Moon), like a common yellow onion. The long and small expensive ones have been really too hot for me, and the taste I would personally rate below the round ones (these I have only bought, from France, Nl, Ro, not entirely sure what variety but they were somewhat similar in high heat, might be good for cooking).

This thread reminds me of my ultimate allium for aroma and flavor...ramps. It's almost that time of the year for the hunt. And, if the river don't rise too high, fiddleheads too.