Tomatoville® Gardening Forums - Which Extinct Varieties Are You Sad To See Go?

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Which Extinct Varieties Are You Sad To See Go?

I've discovered that Winter Red is no longer available, nor is Early Cascade F1 with the disease resistance (the OP version may or may not retain any disease resistance). I've never tried either but would if they were still around.

I also recall folks saying that Sheriff was a good-tasting storage tomato, but I can't find that one, either.

Good stuff lost, alas.:(

[I]Solanum lycopersicum[/I] 'Porter's Yellow' 1940s - mid 1960s.

Salt, did you ever taste PY?

Nan

I want my Applause Tomato back. It is a hybrid and is early with medium to large round red tomatoes. It is high yielding and I never had a disease problem. I can find it at Reimer Seeds which has awful reviews and an Etsy seller. I am not sure if I trust either company. I am not sure if you wanted open pollinated or hybrids and what qualifies as extinct.
Barb

Any tomato you wish was here but isn't. Who knows, someone in TV might still have seeds for something we mention...

Nan

Rushmore Hybrid - discontinued by Gurney circa 1976-80. Years later I found some ancient seeds in a cupboard, but none germinated. It was of Sioux parentage, but to me, way better. But it turned out to be a good thing when it went out of production, because I was not satisfied with any of the other similar red hybrids around, and found my way to heirlooms and OP's. :cute:

I didn't get to taste it. I was born in 65. My wife and I really like Porter tomatoes, and would like to taste the Yellow Porter.

I do hope someone might have some seeds stashed away somewhere. I'm looking up [I]Solanum lycopersicum[/I] - so far I've found Porter [URL]https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail.aspx?1203351[/URL]

[QUOTE=Nan_PA_6b;614368]I've discovered that Winter Red is no longer available, nor is Early Cascade F1 with the disease resistance (the OP version may or may not retain any disease resistance). I've never tried either but would if they were still around.

I also recall folks saying that Sheriff was a good-tasting storage tomato, but I can't find that one, either.

Good stuff lost, alas.:([/QUOTE]

I think you mean this one,not Sheriff.

[url]http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Zhiraf[/url]

To me the word extinct is a relative term since probably someone somewhere has it. When I look at the names in the link above I think one of them may probably still have it. I could look in my SSE Yearbook to check but right now it's too dark to do that here by my computer.

BUT,the problem with many,myself included is that old seeds are difficult, often impossible to germinate.

Tania has asked me several times if I have this or that b/c seeds she got from elsewhere were no good,so I send her what I can with fingers crossed.

If you really want the Zhiraf one why not ask for it in the Wanted sub seedForum.

And yes,I've grown it, but for a storage variety I'll go for one of the many de Colgar Spanish ones. But to be honest,personally I have little to no interest in longkeeper varieties.:)

Carolyn

Here's one I've always wished were still around ....

[LIST=1][*] [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][I]Dwarf Yellow Prince[/I] - Introduced in 1898. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica][SIZE=2][COLOR=#FF0000]VSC Note[/COLOR]: Although it appears that there is a discrepancy in the catalog descriptions, the tomato size did not change, just the standard of measure. It is likely that this was done to more accurately reflect size in relationship to the size of contemporarily available varieties. This variety is presumed to be extinct.[/SIZE][/FONT][/LIST][URL]http://www.tomatoville.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=69227&stc=1&d=1485648143[/URL]

Carolyn, it's not Zhiraf/Giraffe. There was supposedly one called Sheriff (which is hard to search for; we need tomatoes with weird names...) This quote is found in a few places on the Internet:

In an article in Organic Gardening (Cebenko, 1997), the longer keeping
varieties (in order of taste) were found to be
Yellow varieties Dwarf Gold Treasure, Mountain Gold, and Winter Gold
Red varieties Flavor More, Sheriff, Winter Red

Nan

On second thought, Carolyn, it's possible that someone in the taste testing misheard the name Zhiraf as Sheriff. Maybe I've been looking for a nonexistent tomato.

Nan

[QUOTE=Nan_PA_6b;614462]On second thought, Carolyn, it's possible that someone in the taste testing misheard the name Zhiraf as Sheriff. Maybe I've been looking for a nonexistent tomato.

Nan[/QUOTE]

Sandhill does have Giraffe (presumably Zhiraf/Giraffe)

FWIW, I accidentally found that Zolotoe Serdtse and Medovoe Serdtse were decent long keeping tomatoes -- though they're not listed anywhere as such that I know of. I picked them mature green and stored them in a cool area with cool plant lights over them and they ripened slowly over a period of months. I don't know if they behave that way consistently, but might be worth a try if you're looking for long keepers.

On thread topic -- the one I'm sad is (apparently) gone is [B]Livingston's Aristocrat [/B]-- it was very popular a century ago, and the description is interesting -- I mention it occasionally in hope that someone will pop up and say "Oh, we've grown that one in this area forever!"

But even if not, the once popular tomatoes are probably not really gone, but are surviving intact as or as a component of finds like "Grandpa's favorite tomato that our family always grows."

[QUOTE=JLJ_;614506]Sandhill does have Giraffe (presumably Zhiraf/Giraffe)

FWIW, I accidentally found that Zolotoe Serdtse and Medovoe Serdtse were decent long keeping tomatoes -- though they're not listed anywhere as such that I know of. I picked them mature green and stored them in a cool area with cool plant lights over them and they ripened slowly over a period of months. I don't know if they behave that way consistently, but might be worth a try if you're looking for long keepers.

On thread topic -- the one I'm sad is (apparently) gone is [B]Livingston's Aristocrat [/B]-- it was very popular a century ago, and the description is interesting -- I mention it occasionally in hope that someone will pop up and say "Oh, we've grown that one in this area forever!"

But even if not, the once popular tomatoes are probably not really gone, but are surviving intact as or as a component of finds like "Grandpa's favorite tomato that our family always grows."[/QUOTE]

My Sandhill catalog is over by my bed, it's the 2016, the 2017 hasn't come yet and I haven't been to the website to see if Linda has updated yet.

There is no Livingstons' Aristocrat. Here is the link to Mike Dunton's section on Livingston varieties and he's the authority on same

[url]http://www.victoryseeds.com/tomato_livingston.html[/url]

However, there is a Dwarf Aristocrat that mike also mentions but via Burpee.

[url]http://www.victoryseeds.com/tomato_burpee-quarter-century.html[/url]

Aha, so there once was a Dwarf Aristocrat but gone with the wind at least a century ago.

[url]https://www.google.com/search?q=dwarf+aristocrat+tomato&hl=en&biw=1402&bih=788&site=imghp&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiziY3S_-fRAhWEVyYKHXPgCawQ_AUIBygA&dpr=1[/url]

and that took me to tomodori and then to ventmarin

[url]http://ventmarin.free.fr/passion_tomates/tomates_ds_dx/tomates_ds_dx.htm[/url]

.....last noted in what was it, 1913?

If I could find my Michigan 1939 papers I know I'd find other synonyms for it

You wrote

(But even if not, the once popular tomatoes are probably not really gone, but are surviving intact as or as a component of finds like "Grandpa's favorite tomato that our family always grows.)

and here's a good example

[url]http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Jean%27s_Prize[/url]

John Jones also told me that no one could remember the name of the original tomato so they renamed it Jean's Prize.

There are several examples like that but it's the first one I remembered.

(I accidentally found that Zolotoe Serdtse and Medovoe Serdtse were decent long keeping tomatoes)

I've grown both and offered them in seed offers and never saw them as long keepers, but where you grow,isn't it Wyoming, perhaps they might be.

Carolyn

Paul's Pink Pride seems to have disappeared. I dropped the ball on this one. Found it in SSE seven or eight years ago and now I can't find it anywhere. I sent seeds out to several people and failed to retain seeds for myself. Had too much going on that year and my head was somewhere else.

[QUOTE=PaulF;614589]Paul's Pink Pride seems to have disappeared. I dropped the ball on this one. Found it in SSE seven or eight years ago and now I can't find it anywhere. I sent seeds out to several people and failed to retain seeds for myself. Had too much going on that year and my head was somewhere else.[/QUOTE]

Surprise,it's still alive and viable.

I looked in my 2016 SSE Yearbook and found it listed by SSE itself, they do that a lot now, that is,if a variety hasn't been listed for many years then they get it out, grow it and produce seeds.

So if you were at the time in CA, and had a user name of CA CO P, which makes sense, then that's you. BUT, you say you found it, but did not list it, so maybe it's not you.

If interested I can give you the accession # and all of that but too dark now by my computer to do that.If yes,just post here.

Carolyn

Hurrah for Paul's Pink Pride! And Hurrah for Carolyn who found it!

Nan

:dance:

Carolyn: Nope, never been to California except to the Rose Bowl and parade. I think I tried to ask SSE if it was available and got some song and dance about no such thing exists and if it did it is a salad sized tomato and the one I grew was a beefsteak. I would love to try again, so send away when you have time. Thanks for the effort.

Paul

[QUOTE=Starlight;615125]Paul.... I found this

[url]http://ventmarin.free.fr/passion_tomates/tomates_pa_pk/tomates_p.htm[/url]

They list on the page as Paul Pink Pride and that it from Italy, I think if I translating the words right.

I can't translate the page, but maybe Carolyn is familiar with the site and the language and from there maybe she can say if you can order from that site or has an idea where to hunt for it from that site.[/QUOTE]

I gave the same link to Ventmarin in my post #14 above,last known in I think 1903.

Yes, I know Ventmarin very well and have for several decades. Christian,whose site it is sells no tomato seeds,it's an informational site only.

Most of the time the info is correct but Andrey in Belarus, a member here has said that not all is correct, and I would say the same for several variety descriptions.

Lastly, at the site you can set it to translate to English, but it takes forever to do that and by now I know most of the french words used to describe what's there so I just leave it as it is,in French.

Carolyn

[QUOTE=PaulF;614651]Carolyn: Nope, never been to California except to the Rose Bowl and parade. I think I tried to ask SSE if it was available and got some song and dance about no such thing exists and if it did it is a salad sized tomato and the one I grew was a beefsteak. I would love to try again, so send away when you have time. Thanks for the effort.

Paul[/QUOTE]

Paul, someone gave you wrong info since it did appear in the 2016 SSE Yearbook, but no description, just an accession # , etc.

Requests are supposed to be possible until the next year book is received, and I haven't heard of anyone who has yet received it.

If it does reappear in the 2017 I'll try to get some seeds for you or if I have time,possibly contact them now about it.

Quite frankly, IMO things are amiss right now at SSE,so we shall see.

I just checked again and seeds were from CA C0 P and no such person is listed now, but probably once was.

As I said for another variety, when a variety hasn't appeared for many years SSE itself is pulling it out of the deep freeze, growing it out and SSE Listing it. I've seen that happen for some of my varieties as well,

SSE is THE largest lister of varieties, not just in the 400 pages of tomato listings but in the YEarbook as a whole, so they make money from that that I guess helps with other SSE expenses.

Carolyn

[QUOTE=Nan_PA_6b;614548]JLJ, did Zolotoe Serdtse and Medovoe Serdtse retain a good taste when ripened in storage? . . . [/QUOTE]

Taste is so relative I don't have a good answer. All I can tell you is that I normally pick most tomatoes at "mature green" stage. I accidentally found several years ago that if I then ripen them in trays (indoors in a cool to neutral temp area) under the same plant fluorescent lights I use for seedlings (but farther away from the fruit in order to not add heat) nearly all fruit ripens as well as it would have in the garden. (And much better than it would have if the garden is suddenly under a couple feet of snow.) :twisted:

I tentatively believe that the cool light enables the green fruit to continue ripening a little bit more as it would have in the garden than if the fruit was ripened in a dark area. And snow jokes aside, by the time there is much mature green fruit, we are often beginning to have pretty cool nights . . . and I think most tomatoes ripen better if they've never experienced temps much below 50 F . . . so ripening temps indoors, even in a cool area indoors, may be more favorable for the tomatoes than the outside night time temps. But as Carolyn mentioned, the cooler climate here may produce results different from those seen in warmer areas. On the other hand, in hot areas, many have air conditioned houses, so it may not be that different after all . . . I just don't know.

Ripening indoors does also prevent damage from critters (Malamute excepted), wet weather, etc . . . and that benefit is the same everywhere.

I have grown "long keeper" varieties and while they were OK, they didn't seem to warrant the garden resources they consumed, especially since other varieties seem to keep just as well, if treated as one is supposed to treat long keeper tomatoes -- pick mature green and let ripen slowly indoors. But I did notice that Zolotoe Serdtse and Medovoe Serdtse ripened slowly and still had nice fruit around when most of the others had been eaten or processed -- probably at least a couple of months after picking, maybe longer. Might be worth a try if you're testing keeper tomatoes, anyway, to see what they do for you.

[QUOTE=carolyn137;614573]My Sandhill catalog is over by my bed, it's the 2016, the 2017 hasn't come yet and I haven't been to the website to see if Linda has updated yet.

There is no Livingstons' Aristocrat. Here is the link to Mike Dunton's section on Livingston varieties and he's the authority on same

[URL]http://www.victoryseeds.com/tomato_livingston.html[/URL]

However, there is a Dwarf Aristocrat that mike also mentions but via Burpee.

[URL]http://www.victoryseeds.com/tomato_burpee-quarter-century.html[/URL]

Aha, so there once was a Dwarf Aristocrat but gone with the wind . . .[/QUOTE]

Sandhill updated their tomato list mid-January.

And, it's true, sadly, that most sources I've found say that Aristocrat is "believed to be extinct" or has "no known sources for seed" . . . which is why I mentioned it in this thread, and who knows, maybe one of these days . . .

The Burpee Quarter Century you mentioned is interesting. Though not receiving that name until 1901, it had been introduced in 1896, only three years after Livingstone introduced Aristocrat . . . which seems to have been very popular for some years. Having a stated lineage, it probably wasn't just a renamed Aristocrat, but especially considering the 1906 reference "it might be called an improved Dwarf Aristocrat", the tomato eventually named Quarter Century might have been a deliberate attempt to duplicate Aristocrat.

(Livingstone said he'd found Aristocrat in a field of Dwarf Champions, probably, he believed, an accidental cross with one of his better reds. Quarter Century was a 3rd generation offspring of a deliberate cross of a good red tomato with Dwarf Champion . . . which would mean that the initial cross was done about the time that Livingston's juicy description of the new Aristocrat -- and the released variety itself, appeared in public.)

Below is Livingston's 1893 description of Dwarf Aristocrat, which I think explains its appeal for me . . . also interesting that portions of the later description of Quarter Century could almost have been lifted from Livingston's description of Aristocrat, but Aristocrat seems to have had a larger combination of appealing features that Quarter Century (and other Livingston tomatoes) lacked.

----------

From "Livingston and the Tomato" 1893 p. 42-44

16. Livingston's New Dwarf Aristocrat Tomato.—
It would seem after all that has been said of the
tomatoes already described, that no more could be added,
or any other improvements made on them; yet there
are many more points of excellence to be attained, some
of which I claim are found in this new dwarf tomato
which will be introduced this year—1893. It has a
strong, erect, bushy stalk, that is often one and a half
inches in diameter. Because of its erect bearing and
dressy appearance it is called " The Aristocrat." The
plants are so stalky and stiff from the time they come
out of the ground that they reset without wilting or
falling down, and are therefore not stunted; nearly a
week on "first early'' is gained in this way. Plants can
be set much closer than those of other varieties ; at least
one-half more will be required to set the same plot of
ground. With this advantage, and their extra productiveness,
I believe under special cultivation they will
produce one-third more to the acre than other kinds.
It begins to bear with the earliest varieties, and does
not cease bearing until frosts kill the vines. Yet because
of its erectness, bushy habits, and close standing
in the field, it is saved from the early frosts, and only
the hard freezes in the fall will reach the fruit hid up
under its foliage, and thus bears abundantly when other
kinds have been entirely killed. The fruit has the peculiar
quality of keeping in a dry, cool room, before
decay sets in, for three or four weeks after they cannot
longer be trusted in the open field. It is also a large
sized tomato, of a bright glossy red color, very fine
fieshed and flavored, uniformly smooth, and is an all
purpose tomato for shippers, canners, market gardeners,
and for fancy and remumerative home-culture. In a
word, it carries the good qualities of its forerunners
among my varieties, and has some others peculiar to
itself. I prophesy a brilliant future for our Aristocrat.

I've been spreading outside Eastern Europe seeds of Zhiraf (Giraffe in English) and Zolotoe Serdtse tomato varieties for about 15 years so far.
Zhiraf (Giraffe) is the best known longkeeper tomato variety from Russia.
Zolotoe Serdtse (=Heart of Gold in English) is not a longkeeper, but is a very good early variety with heart shaped gold/yellow fruit. Also from Russia.

[QUOTE=Andrey_BY;615833]I've been spreading outside Eastern Europe seeds of Zhiraf (Giraffe in English) and Zolotoe Serdtse tomato varieties for about 15 years so far.
Zhiraf (Giraffe) is the best known longkeeper tomato variety from Russia.
Zolotoe Serdtse (=Heart of Gold in English) is not a longkeeper, but is a very good early variety with heart shaped gold/yellow fruit. Also from Russia.[/QUOTE]

I can't remember where I got my Ziraf seeds from, but yes Zolote Serdtse, also,I love then name of this one Serdtse Buivola,heart of the buffalo, and so many others you've sent me over the years and most recently

Toltuska
Rozovyi Tsar
Pylayushohee ( spelling?) Serdtse

... and so many more, especially anything that has serdtse as part of the name.:)

Carolyn

[QUOTE=carolyn137;615921]I can't remember where I got my Ziraf seeds from, but yes Zolote Serdtse, also,I love then name of this one Serdtse Buivola,heart of the buffalo, and so many others you've sent me over the years and most recently

Toltuska
Rozovyi Tsar
Pylayushohee ( spelling?) Serdtse

... and so many more, especially anything that has serdtse as part of the name.:)

Carolyn[/QUOTE]

Wonderful names all:). Imagine the fun of handing these out stating the name the meanings . :).

[QUOTE=Jimbotomateo;615953]Wonderful names all:). Imagine the fun of handing these out stating the name the meanings . :).[/QUOTE]

Fact is that when the Carolyn/Shawn seed offer finally goes up, the ones from 2016, well,there's a very long list of them, I call it the International offer, and no way do I know the English names for most of them.

And rather than having a long list for folks to select from I like to be able to tell them as much as I know about each one.

There are ones that my seed producers did and also ones sent to me already processed,so we shall see.

So new that consulting Tania's site or Ventmarin,or Google or whatever,is not going to help. Ah well,what is,is.:)

Carolyn

One of my best friends parents were from Russia. We went to same school k thru 8 and then high school. We're friends to this very day. This time frame is from fifties til present. Cold War?. We didn't get the memo.:lol:. I didn't realize Belarus was its own sovereign country and different ethnic group and language spoken. :).

We are quite old:D Belarus has got a history of more than a thousand years so far and Minsk the capital of our country has been founded before 1067.
In the Middle Ages Belarusians shared The Great Dutchy of Lithuania/Rzeczpospolita with Polish and Lithuanian people with old Belarusian language has being used as official language;) And later we went on under Russian Empire seeing like young country of USA was born;)

[QUOTE=Jimbotomateo;616094]One of my best friends parents were from Russia. We went to same school k thru 8 and then high school. We're friends to this very day. This time frame is from fifties til present. Cold War?. We didn't get the memo.:lol:. I didn't realize Belarus was its own sovereign country and different ethnic group and language spoken. :).[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Andrey_BY;616106]We are quite old:D Belarus has got a history of more than a thousand years so far and Minsk the capital of our country has been founded before 1067.
In the Middle Ages Belarusians shared The Great Dutchy of Lithuania/Rzeczpospolita with Polish and Lithuanian people with old Belarusian language has being used as official language;) And later we went on under Russian Empire seeing like young country of USA was born;)[/QUOTE]

Andrey, many thanks for great history lesson!. :) Please post more information about your country every time you're so inclined. Interesting that Belarusians have close ties with Polish and Lithuanians. :). Jimbo