SVB - BT or Sevin?
 

My cucs and squash are going out tomorrow. What do you folks prefer - BT or Sevin? We are likely to get hit bad by the squash borers this year, and I want to be ready from day 1 to fight like a Marine in Tripoli.

Why not wrap the stems in nylon stockings? I'd try it if I had a problem. When I did, as I recall, they only liked the thickest, oldest part of the stem. If they still tried, then they'd be further down the vine, and not so likely to kill the whole plant. Medical gauze, the stretchy kind, might work, too, but I think it stays wet too long.

I would never use Sevin, and bt washes away too fast for me here. Thank goodness they hate our weather.

j

BT is only effective on caterpillars. It's effective to combat horn worms, cabbage loopers, etc. Vine borers, cucumber beetles and the like will not be affected by it. Unfortunately, they require heavy artillery - at least in my experience.

[QUOTE=janezee;261655]Why not wrap the stems in nylon stockings? I'd try it if I had a problem. When I did, as I recall, they only liked the thickest, oldest part of the stem. If they still tried, then they'd be further down the vine, and not so likely to kill the whole plant. Medical gauze, the stretchy kind, might work, too, but I think it stays wet too long.

I would never use Sevin, and bt washes away too fast for me here. Thank goodness they hate our weather.

j[/QUOTE]

Sweetheart, I wonder if we are in two different war zones. In Georgia, it is a fully engaged, 24 hour a day, battle with the bugs. They are waiting tonight in battalions for me to set out the squash, and as soon as I do, they will launch a frontal attack. Will nylon stockings really work in this war zone?

Stocking
 

[QUOTE=ScottinAtlanta;261661]Sweetheart, I wonder if we are in two different war zones. In Georgia, it is a fully engaged, 24 hour a day, battle with the bugs. They are waiting tonight in battalions for me to set out the squash, and as soon as I do, they will launch a frontal attack. Will nylon stockings really work in this war zone?[/QUOTE]


Probably not, but they will have legs to die for!

I try to spray my squash vines near the base and as they get larger further up the stem with Sevin every 10 days or after every hard rain. I also mix in a little molasses and dish washing soap. BT doesn't work for me down here on squash borers. I also mulch heavily around the base of each plant. Despite doing all of this I will still eventually lose most of my plants to squash vine borers. I don't know if there is any way to completely stop them with anything that won't also poison you too. I used to split the stem a bit and pull the borers out and bury the damaged part of the stem; but by the time the plant was fully recovered it would usually already have more borers in it.

Scott, Are you really setting out your squash and cukes tomorrow? I know the weather is glorious this week but I'm hesitating because April 1st-10th is the last frost date.

Nylon stockings? Where would you get enough - who wears nylons in Atlanta? I'm growing mostly Maximas which scream "come and get me" to the borers.

Yvonne

From Clemson's website:

[B]Control of Curcurbit Insects[/B]

Cucumber beetles or squash beetles can be controlled effectively using carbaryl (Sevin), but wait one day after spraying before harvest. For aphids or spider mites use an insecticidal soap such as Concern Insect Killing Soap or Safer Brand Soap. Control heavy populations of aphids or spider mites with neem oil extract (such as Green Light Neem Concentrate or Bonide Bon-Neem).
[B]For vine borers[/B] and pickleworms control after mid-June, apply carbaryl (Sevin) or neem oil extract weekly, and spray or dust in the evening to not kill pollinating insects. Wait one day after spraying carbaryl before harvest. Rotenone (such as Hi-Yield Rotenone Dust) is effective against younger squash bugs, but not against the adults. Esfenvalerate (such as Ortho Bug-B-Gon MAX Garden & Landscape Insect Killer RTU) or permethrin (such as Bonide Eight Insect Control Vegetable, Fruit & Flower Concentrate) or bifenthrin (such as Ortho Bug-B-Gon MAX Lawn & Garden Insect Killer Concentrate) will control cucumber beetles, squash bugs, squash vine borers and pickleworms, but wait 3 days after spraying before harvest.

I heard a tip on "Making It Grow" (SC public TV) to wrap the stems close to the ground with aluminum foil to "foil" the dreaded SV borer. I tried it one time, but failed to maintain it when the squash plants grew and pushed the foil off. This year I will try re wrapping with foil after 2 or 3 weeks. It has promise if you are only growing a manageable number of squash plants.

Thanks, folks, for all your suggestions. I think I will go with Sevin this year to see how that works. The Straight 8 cucs, Horn of Plenty, Straightneck Yellow, Pattypan White, and Delicata went into the ground today, so the battle starts tonight.

If you don't hear from me again, I lost. But don't cry for me, Tomatoville. I went down fighting.

Darlin', I just asked "why not?" :cute:

I like to think 'outside the box.' ;)

You [I]could[/I] try it on one. :yes:

janezee, Why not indeed? I may buy a pair of cheap nylons to try this. But could you describe how this is done? I can't visualize this at all.:lol:

Yvonne

Folks, I went with a floating row cover, and I think it will work just fine. There is no physical access to the plants for those dreadful insects.

Yvonne, I'd get a couple of safety pins, start near the ground, pin the first wrap, and then proceed like an Ace bandage. Not too tight, but tight enough to keep the bugs out. Of course, the stocking would 'grow' with the thickness of the stem. Pin at the end to hold in place.

Now that I've thought of it, I [I][B]almost[/B][/I] wish I had a use for it.:twisted:
But if you really do try it, I'd love to know if it works for you. :yes:

My garden is small, and there's no room for squash inside the fence, so I'm buying deer netting and tenting my squash. My squash pests have 4 hooves and sometimes antlers.:evil:

I'm using bridal tulle (Jo-Anne's) to tent my brassicas and to make bags for my tomatoes and peppers. They'll think that that's a huge veil by the time I buy a whole bolt!

Janzee, I will definitely try it. What color stockings go with green? ;) I tried row cover last year......it worked until I removed it to allow the bees to reach the flowers. The bees were accompanied by a host of SVB's and squash bugs. Never a dull moment. Will let you know how the stockings work. They will stretch unlike the aluminum foil and will stay on better. Thanks for posting the idea. One day we will figure this out if we just keep trying.

OP, did you remove the row cover during the day and replace at night? I understand that the SVB moths come out during the evening, so I wonder if timing would work with the row covers?

Or, if row covers cannot be used after the vine blooms, I will turn back to nylons or foil.

Scott,

Other than removing some weeds and checking the plants, the cover stayed on the squash & zucchini plants until they began to bloom. They were in a small hoop house (maybe 5X10?) that we built using 10' sections of pvc pipe.

As soon as the plants popped through the ground, there were cucumber beetles walking around on the cover. Then, the squash bugs arrived and joined the cucumber beetles. Some managed to get in and lay eggs before I removed the cover for the honeybees. The SVB didn't bother them until I took the cover off.

Mason bees might work in an enclosed area and fertilize the plants without raising the cover. I think I could have managed the squash bugs, but the borer always gets to the squash just as they begin to bear. I will wrap the stems with aluminum foil and with stockings and hope for a good crop. What will the neighbors think? :surprised:

Good luck!

Nothing works here against them (i've tried spraying the stems with everything, I even wondered if pruning seal would work. It does, but you wont get any squash either. heh.)

I keep hoping Seminis will release a GMO Bt squash.
[SIZE=1]*runs for cover*[/SIZE]

Chris,
I have used a hypodermic filled with Bt liquid and injected the stems after the SVB damaged the stem. No, it didn't save the plant, but maybe I was too late.

Maybe I need to be vaccinating them with Bt before the borer finds them?

Beginning to feel a little like Bill Murray in Caddyshack just thinking about squash bugs and squash vine borers......:twisted:

I use aluminum foil, flashy side up, every year. No SVB the past two years.

:roll:Now, if only I could get my hands on that Romanian bride's world record bridal train (1.85 miles long), I'd put my squash under it.

Tormato

Torm, how exactly do you apply it? for example, do you wrap it around the stem? How far up the stem?

[QUOTE=ScottinAtlanta;262834]Torm, how exactly do you apply it? for example, do you wrap it around the stem? How far up the stem?[/QUOTE] Ditto

Do you any pictures showing it on the vine?

I start with a roughly 12" x 12" square of aluminum foil. Then make a cut from the midpoint of one side to the center of the square. Open the cut wide enough for the squash stem. Move the square so the stem is in the center of the square. Overlap the aluminum foil so there is no cut showing. I usually go 2" or more up the stem from ground level.

Tormato

Tormato, thanks for posting! I can see that the way you wrapped the plants will keep the plant covered as the stem grows. The pieces of foil that I tried were not large enough. Can't wait to give this a go....:-)

Thanks Tormato for the walk through

I'm really looking forward to updates on this!

I used to use foil, too, but it didn't stay on. I guess that I didn't use nearly enough. I'd bet that the stockings would have helped keep it in place. Great going, tormato!

Thanks, Tormato. Do you mean to say you cover 2 inches or two feet of the stem from the ground level?

Two inches up the stem.

Also, some soil over the outer edges of the foil at ground level can help it stay grounded in windy conditions.

Tormato

Two INCHES up the stem protects the vine from SVBs? Can that be right?

Scott,

2 inches, or a little more. I don't think I've ever gone more than three inches.

SVB mostly like to start their attack near ground level, if I can believe what I've read.

It's the reflective nature of the aluminum foil that is supposed to repel them more than the physical barrier, again from what I've read.

The one thing I do know, I've had no SVB in mostly sunny growing seasons, and have had SVB in very cloudy growing seasons, while using the aluminum foil method.

Tormato

[QUOTE=ScottinAtlanta;264116]Two INCHES up the stem protects the vine from SVBs? Can that be right?[/QUOTE]

The vine borers here will hit the plant stem as far up as necessary to get in the plant. I have had them get in the stem as far as 3 ft up and have had stems with multiple borers attacking them. Squash plants get fairly large in my garden some years if the borers are late arriving. Putting the foil on the first few inches might delay them for a little while but not for very long down here. The only way to delay them for any length of time is to regularly spray the stems with Sevin and again after every rain or watering. Even doing this will only delay the inevitable; but by then I am usually a little tired of squash.