Is there a medium to large red or black tomato that is super swee
 

Hi All,

Yes I am looking for a very sweet mid to large size tomato that is very sweet. I love Sungold or Sweet Baby Girl cherry with high brix. Are there any red or black that are anywhere near as sweet?

Thank you in advance.

Karma

I'm sure you will get a lot of replies, and I look forward to reading them myself. I don't think of reds and blacks as being sweet, at least larger-fruited ones, so I am eager to hear what everyone else has to say.

Having said that, if you let some bicolor varieties get very ripe, they are almost red-looking, at least. Lucky Cross, and the dwarf version Wherokowhai are some of the sweetest fruit I have grown.

Others that come to mind that are also not red/black are Dwarf Sweet Sue, KBX, and several green when ripe varieties like Esmerelda Golosina, Dwarf Jade Beauty, and Malachite Box. I think you would like all of the Ambrosia cherries as well.

I thought I liked sweet tomatoes, but Aunt Ginny's Purple was too sweet for me. It's a large pink.

Linda

Lucid Gem isn't red or black, but is pretty sweet when ripe.

One with a little sugar sprinkled on it, old timers used to do it all the time as well as myself.

[QUOTE=pmcgrady;673303]Lucid Gem isn't red or black, but is pretty sweet when ripe.[/QUOTE]

Good to know. I just got this one from Heritage Seeds.

I don't think of SunGold as a sweet one. Just dependably balanced
and a good producer all season. Usually one of the first of any
season.

SweetOzarkOrange is excellent and full flavored, savory sweet...
very juicy. Very dark orange and a bit low in acid that brings out
the sweet flavor. A good size at 10-12 oz. Growing again for sure.

GGWThing is a good rich fruity dark. Good size.

The only high brix I have had is still in the early grow outs of the
DwarfProject. A dark dusty pink, large cherry. Brixed at 11.5 in early September.
Hoping it holds that flavor. Buttery/savory as well as sweet.
I'll be growing it again 2018 season.

In the Winter when I have a BLT jones, I splash a scant tsp of
a good fruity wine vinegar on Kumatos from the grocery. All the
hot house toms need some help.

Hello,
I don't know of any red or black that would be described as "super sweet" or with a high brix
There are lots with a complex sweet/tart flavour though. For a black, I thought Margaret curtain was excellent. For a red, you may wish to explore some of the red, not pink hearts. some of them can be described as sweet as well but not extremely sweet like sungold.
as others have mentioned, for sweet in a full sized tomato, the bicolours and many pinks would be more reliably sweet.
KarenO

Kumato has never let us down.A commodity standard in garden,after years of growing them out.

I'm a big Sungold F1 fan but found Sweet Baby Girl a bit bland for my tastebuds. I would suggest that you try Blackberry for a black and Moya for a red beefsteak of medium to large size. Never measured their brix but they are our sweet favorites in those color categories. Also agree with Sweet Ozark Orange being a sweet, favorite large orange beefsteak.

Variety matter, but I think it's down to having excellent soil, good growing condition, and the amount of watering. I think it's hard pressed to get beefsteak to be as sweet compared to cherry.

Last year, Paul Robeson was the sweetest medium beefsteak for me even though growing in a 5gallon grow bag.

Taste is in the mouth of the person eating a tomato and there are several cultural conditions that also play into taste.

In addtion, there are human genes involved with taste,and not just tomatoes.

Soooo, what tastes sweet to me in one season may taste very bad the next season. The perfect example for me are the gold/red bicolors.

One season lucious and sweet, next season bland and mealy for the same varieties.

I'll end by saying that the gold/red bicolors, for me, are VERY dependent on the weather,primarily,in any given season.

Carolyn

22 July 2017 Indigo Ruby Tomato
 

[url]http://durgan.org/2017/July%202017/22%20July%202017%20Indigo%20Ruby%20Tomato/HTML/[/url] 22 July 2017 Indigo Ruby Tomato
This unique tomato is producing fruit which is in the growing stage not yet ripe. At first glance they look like eggplant with a jet shiny black color at the portion exposed to Sun and perfectly spherical. The underside not exposed to Sun is still green. Closely related to Indigo Rose Tomato.

[url]http://extension.oregonstate.edu/gardening/purple-tomato-debuts-indigo-rose[/url] Indigo Rose
The Indigo tomatoes will be purple where exposed to light and they tend to have a purple to black crown. They are ripe when their color changes from a shiny blue-purple to a dull purple-brown. The fruit also softens similarly to regular tomatoes, and the bottom of the tomatoes will turn from green to red when ripe.


15 August 2017 Indigo Ruby Tomato Beginning to ripen
[url]http://durgan.org/2017/August%202017/15%20August%202017%20Indigo%20Ruby%20Tomato/HTML/[/url] 15 August 2017 Indigo Ruby Tomato
Ripe when the bottom of the fruit turns red. This is away from the Sun direction. The plant is prolific, and the fruit is perfect with no blemishes. The taste of the fruit is pleasant. Size is about golf ball dimensions. A bowl would be attractive at a dinner setting.

Since the ask was for a red or black tomato that is sweet.. The first one that comes to mind, and is also one that is easy to find, and easy to grow. You might try Marglobe.

The year I grew it, Anna Russian was sweet like watermelon. :surprised::yes:

And I'll add, the sweetest black I've grown iirc, Tsindao.

I agree AnnaRussian can be really good. I've grown it for maybe
20yrs. My first great tomato love. Hit or miss depending on the
season but I always give it a chance. Hearts do well in my climate.

I also agree taste is subjective and human genes play a role.
Yet many varieties run a high percentage in agreed upon outcomes in flavor.
Proven by the many group 'tastings' all over that conclude the same sweet, tart,
acidic, fruity, savory, balanced, etc outcomes and descriptions.

And why a few are in many gardens, in all climates, different soil, have very
similar outcomes year after year. Can't really argue some of those
outcomes and percentages.

I have no experience with these, but in my tomato investigations over the years, these have been described as quite sweet (not red or black, alas):

Elgin Pink (pink, large)
Momotaro F1 (pink, 6-7 oz)
Pale Perfect Purple (pink, 3-6 oz)
Virginia Sweets (red-gold bicolor, large)

Nan

[QUOTE=sirtanon;673344]Since the ask was for a red or black tomato that is sweet.. The first one that comes to mind, and is also one that is easy to find, and easy to grow. You might try Marglobe.[/QUOTE]

Yes, a sweet red or black was asked for and what you've seen in this thread to date are varieties of several colors being mentioned.

And you suggest Marglobe, yes red, one of many standard reds such as Bonny Best and others that we grew on the farm where I was raised. None of them were sweet for us on our farm and that was true for others as well..

The original Rutgers was first released in 1928 and re released in 1933. If you look in the SSE Yearbooks you can see many Rutgers listed, genes for this and that added, but still an OP.

Lettuce;) consider the following.

Do any of you know of a variety that is consistently all true black?I don't, I refer to them as pink/blacks and red/blacks,depending on what the epidermis color is.

What is the difference between a large or small pink variety and a red one?

Pink ones have a clear epidermis and red ones have a yellow epidermis.

What is the color of the interior?

For both of them it's red.

So why ask only for suggestions for red ones and not pink ones? It's the genes they have that's the issue here IMO.

Carolyn

I can think of several red or dark cherry tomatoes that I consider sweet, even some large cherry or saladette sized, but no large-fruit varieties seem to taste as sweet to me. I wonder if that has something to do with the plant's limited ability to produce sugar being spread across a smaller volume of fruit? Just a guess.

Altajskij Urozajnij is a sweet red. Medium sized fruit at least. But the year I grew it outdoors in an inclement season, and it bore but a few much smaller fruit, they were ridiculously sweet and rich tasting. :love: The year after, I gave it a primo spot in the greenhouse in a big container, where it produced a ton of fruit, still sweet but by no means the outstanding quality of the scant year. :bummer:
They were still considered sweet though. (Official taster grew them the second year as well.):)
I know you grew them Cole, and weren't impressed. What did yours taste like?

Mine were decent, from what I remember. I tried that variety in the high tunnel, and it did ok. I just had other varieties do better.

About red or black varieties and which gf alleles are associated possibly with sweetness.

I finally remembered where I had this thread and I know many of you will learn more as I did when I first read it many years ago.

[url]http://206.214.211.133/~tomatovl/showthread.php?t=25916[/url]

You'll also find that Cherokee Purple was not about a 100 yo variety that J.D Green gave to nctomatoman.

Carolyn

I grew Tasmanian Chocolate for the first time this year and shared some plants with friends. Everyone commented on its sweetness so you might want to try this one. I grew 16 varieties in 2017 and it was a real winner.

Tasmanian Chocolate is a good pick. I did not think of that one, although I like it a lot. It is 1/2 Paul Robeson, which I've had be delicious, but at other times also late and low-yielding.

[QUOTE=kurt;673323]Kumato has never let us down.A commodity standard in garden,after years of growing them out.[/QUOTE]

I was just about to say this. One of the sweetest tomatoes, period. Pull a few seeds out of a grocery store Kumato and you are all set. There is some instabiity but every generation I have grown have been very, very sweet regardless of color. I am sure someone has stabilized Kumato as a medium, round black. My stabilized Kumato are pink. I can send seeds if you like.

[QUOTE=Solanum315;673888]I was just about to say this. One of the sweetest tomatoes, period. Pull a few seeds out of a grocery store Kumato and you are all set. There is some instabiity but every generation I have grown have been very, very sweet regardless of color. I am sure someone has stabilized Kumato as a medium, round black. My stabilized Kumato are pink. I can send seeds if you like.[/QUOTE]

Here is much more info about Kumato, especially noting the info about hybrid or not, color expected, etc.

First, the Google search with LOTS of interesting facts

[url]https://www.google.com/search?q=Origin+of+tomato+Kumato&hl=en&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih-bmd7PXXAhXDl-AKHY-jA-YQ_AUICSgA&biw=1706&bih=815&dpr=1[/url]

And from the above the excellent article about the background of Kumato by Terry Tassone of the Secret Seed Cartel website.

[url]http://tomatoaddict.blogspot.com/2008/04/kumatorosso-bruno.html[/url]

I have seeds from Ilex,aka Paco, in Spain that are the original ones developed in Spain as noted in a link above..

The seeds are labelled Negro de Olmeda.

I hope the above helps especially for those who are interested in Kumato, etc.,

Carolyn

I grew Violet Noir from Secret Seed Cartel and it was super sweet.

You'll not get anything close in brix to sungold on a large tomato, that's just the reality. The sweetest black I have personally grown has been Rosella purple dwarf, it has been quite a bit sweeter than any other black. (I don't really like sweet)

I gots chocolate.
 

[QUOTE=carolyn137;673897]Here is much more info about Kumato, especially noting the info about hybrid or not, color expected, etc.

First, the Google search with LOTS of interesting facts

[url]https://www.google.com/search?q=Origin+of+tomato+Kumato&hl=en&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih-bmd7PXXAhXDl-AKHY-jA-YQ_AUICSgA&biw=1706&bih=815&dpr=1[/url]



And from the above the excellent article about the background of Kumato by Terry Tassone of the Secret Seed Cartel website.

[url]http://tomatoaddict.blogspot.com/2008/04/kumatorosso-bruno.html[/url]

I have seeds from Ilex,aka Paco, in Spain that are the original ones developed in Spain as noted in a link above..

The seeds are labelled Negro de Olmeda.

I hope the above helps especially for those who are interested in Kumato, etc.,

Carolyn[/QUOTE]

If and when you release some of those.
I was lucky enuff to grow out the Canadian sourced Kumato years ago,finicky throughout its generations,fun,a real conversation starter and a great doorstop when needed(small thick skinned,lasts forever on shelf).

[QUOTE=kurt;673986]If and when you release some of those.
I was lucky enuff to grow out the Canadian sourced Kumato years ago,finicky throughout its generations,fun,a real conversation starter and a great doorstop when needed(small thick skinned,lasts forever on shelf).[/QUOTE]

Release some of those?

I'm talking about Only Negro de Olmeda, and right now I don't know if I have any seeds left, don't remember which one of my seed producers selected it,so don't know about germination either.

Actually it sounds from what I typed above that I don't remember much of anything today.;):lol:

Will check and get back to you via PM eventually.

Carolyn