Anyone familiar with "Hoop Benders"?
 

I don't want to start a war or anything. I just want to make sure im not missing something.

There is a particular company selling "Hoop Benders" for High Tunnel, Low Tunnel,etc. production. The benders come in different varieties depending on your needs. Some are listed as "Professional" and some as "Hobbyist". The website claims that they are the inventors of said product.

The benders only make one size of hoop.

The benders are made from 3 pieces of pipe. 2 of which are bent into the radius needed to bend your pipe.

I was looking at a Hoop Bender for a 12 foot wide High Tunnel. Im considering a 12x48, mostly to put flats of plants in for spring and fall sales.

The bender is something like $53 plus shipping.

I decided that I wasnt about to shell out roughly $70 for something that could be easily built. So.. I made my owner bender from a scrap of 2x6 cut into a arch and a piece of pipe strap to hold the pipe in place. Total cost. About $1 The most complicated part is figuring out the length of the arc needed to create the radius.

I went this morning and bought two pieces of chain link fence rail, which is what the "Hoop Bender" people use, and went at it. In a matter of about 5 minutes had my 12 foot bow made. I pounded some scrap rebar into the ground and slipped the bow into place. My bow looks pretty darn good if I do say so myself.

Am I just missing something, that explains why the Hoop Benders are so expensive? Anyone use one, and can you justify the price?

I think a pic tutorial would be good :yes:, I have wanted to try and build one but math and I are like oil and water and sometimes I get tired of having to make/build every single thing from scratch so I can see why some people would rather just pay.

[QUOTE=BigVanVader;549084]I think a pic tutorial would be good :yes:, I have wanted to try and build one but math and I are like oil and water and sometimes I get tired of having to make/build every single thing from scratch so I can see why some people would rather just pay.[/QUOTE]

I agree with the idea that their is a customer for every product coming and going... but gouging is something else.

On the pic tutorial I will work on that. Watch for the update. Hopefully I can get that on this evening.

Check out [url]www.lostcreek.net[/url]
They've got how to videos and instructions.
I was weak and bought them. I purchased them on sale,though. I'm happy with them.

I have the lost creek high tunnel bender, the one that is supposed to make a 20' wide high tunnel hoop out of three pieces of top rail. Here's a pic. I spent more money building the table to mount it to than I did on the bender:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/jsjmncz.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=FourOaks;549081]I don't want to start a war or anything. I just want to make sure im not missing something.

There is a particular company selling "Hoop Benders" for High Tunnel, Low Tunnel,etc. production. The benders come in different varieties depending on your needs. Some are listed as "Professional" and some as "Hobbyist". The website claims that they are the inventors of said product.

The benders only make one size of hoop.

The benders are made from 3 pieces of pipe. 2 of which are bent into the radius needed to bend your pipe.

I was looking at a Hoop Bender for a 12 foot wide High Tunnel. Im considering a 12x48, mostly to put flats of plants in for spring and fall sales.

The bender is something like $53 plus shipping.

I decided that I wasnt about to shell out roughly $70 for something that could be easily built. So.. I made my owner bender from a scrap of 2x6 cut into a arch and a piece of pipe strap to hold the pipe in place. Total cost. About $1 The most complicated part is figuring out the length of the arc needed to create the radius.

I went this morning and bought two pieces of chain link fence rail, which is what the "Hoop Bender" people use, and went at it. In a matter of about 5 minutes had my 12 foot bow made. I pounded some scrap rebar into the ground and slipped the bow into place. My bow looks pretty darn good if I do say so myself.

Am I just missing something, that explains why the Hoop Benders are so expensive? Anyone use one, and can you justify the price?[/QUOTE]

I bought the johnnyseeds gothic high tunnel 14' wide bender. It would have prob. worked with 1-3/8" chain link fence material, but I used industrial grade 1-5/8" material. It made all 22 bows but it def. wasn't designed for this material. The cheater bars that came with it were a complete joke. They kinked in 1/2 after 1 attempt with the 1-5/8" pipe. We had to use 6' long 2" sch 40 pipe for cheater bars.

Cost was $90+shipping which is a complete rip off. Yes it worked but generally was cheaply made (prob < $5 of material). It did save time though; building the bender would have taken quite awhile. Dunno, but now there it sits in the garage.

I dont know why you would think you would start a war.:lol:
As for the math I put on some thread here how to do this with a drawing but I cant find the drawing.
Is is very very easy.
Here is the so called math.
If you want a 12 foot tall hoop then you will have to have a little over 37 feet of pipe.
That half circle is called the radius so a circle with a 12 foot radius is 24 feet in diameter.
The 24 feet will be multiplied by 3.14.
This will give you 75.36 this is the circumference.
Divide 75.36 by 2 and you get 37.68.

Now to get that on a plywood form all you need to do is take string a screwdriver or what ever and a pencil and use it as a gig compass.

Look for tubing rollers.

Worth

Thanks everyone. I was curious if anyone here had used one, and yall haven't disappointed.

Worth, you hit the nail on the head. Thats pretty much how I made mine. As far as my "start a war" comment, I really dont want to bad mouth a product. But clearly, from the comments made, I have a good reason to question the price. And we are clearly discussing the same company here.

For anyone wondering what were yammering on, Ill show you how to do this. Now you can make ANY size hoop, with a dirt cheap hoop bender that can be made in very short order, to any size. I have included photos at the bottom for your viewing pleasure. ;)

Step 1.

How wide is your hoop house. Lets assume 12 Foot. Thats what im building.

Step 2.

Determine your radius. A 12 footer has a radius of 6 foot.

Step 3.

Gather some supplies. A sharpie, some string, some misc screws, a drill, a tape measure, a 2x4 and a scrap of 2x6 (or 2x8, or x10, or x12) I couldn't locate a decent scrap of 2x6 so I used a cut off 2x4. I made the actual prototype with a 2x6 which for strength I would recommend. See photo 1.

Step 4.

Take your scrap of 2x6 and find the center. I would hazard a guess that the minimum length should be around 24 inches. This will give you plenty of bending radius. 36 inches would work really well. Be sure to mark the center of your scrap as shown by Photo 2. Butt the long 2x4 up against the long edge of the 2x6. Make a"T" shape.

Step 5.

Measure in 1 inch from the top of your "T", mark this with your sharpie. See photo 3.

Step 6.

Continue measuring up the length of the long 2x4 until you reach 6 foot. Now add 1 extra inch. 6 foot because this is your radius, plus 1 inch because you measured in 1 inch in the previous step. See photo 4.

Step 7.

At the 6 foot plus 1 inch mark that you just made, run in a wood screw, and tie on a string. Use string that won't stretch. Photo 5.

Step 8.

Place your sharpie on the original 1 inch mark and tie the string around it. The string should be taut. See Photo 6.

Step 9.

Now swing your marker from one side of the 2x6 to the other. Try to keep the string taut, and the sharpie 90 degrees to the wood.

Congratualtions you now have an arch. See photo 7.

Step 10.

Cut the arch out. I used a bandsaw, but a jig saw would work just fine. Just follow the line and take your time. Photo 8.

Step 11.

On one end you need to mount something like a pipe clamp or pipe strap. I use a 1.5 inch strap. I straightened the sides and attached with screws. Leave some play. If the strap is too tight you wont be able to slide the pipe thru it. See photo 9.

Step 12.

Mount your hoop bender to something really stout. I mounted mine to the side of my well house. I built the well house and darn well know its not going anywhere any time soon. I mounted it about 7 foot up in the air, to allow the pipe plenty of bending room. Photo 9.

There you go. Now you can make any size bender you want easily. If anyone wants, Ill do a bending tutorial tomorrow. The official mfr. has instructions that span something like 46 pages. I can sum it up in a couple paragraphs. :P

Excellent job.:yes:
So the hoop house is 6 feet tall and 12 feet wide right?

Worth

[QUOTE=Worth1;549204]Excellent job.:yes:
So the hoop house is 6 feet tall and 12 feet wide right?

Worth[/QUOTE]

Worth, the pipe im using is 10'6". Because of that, its not a perfect circle. It comes out to be a bit over 6.5 feet tall. Yes, it is 12 feet wide.

Looks like you would need 9.42 feet of pipe to get a perfect circle. (each section I should say.)

Great job! Thanks for sharing the instructions and especially the pictures!

Thanks! Seems simple enough.

I don't see a way to secure the hoop to the rebar stake? My first greenhouse was a Clearspan kit. The ground stakes are slightly larger pipe than the hoops, which slide into them and then carriage bolt together.

[QUOTE=PhilaGardener;549264]Great job! Thanks for sharing the instructions and especially the pictures![/QUOTE]

Thank you, and your welcome. I like pictures because it is true, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[QUOTE=BigVanVader;549269]Thanks! Seems simple enough.[/QUOTE]

It really is that simple. Obviously different size bows/hoops would require different amounts of pipe. If you go to the "Hoop Bender Peoples" website they have the info. on quantities of pipe, etc.

On another note, if you dont want to fool with their website, and you want a simple calculator:

[url]http://math.about.com/library/blcirclecalculator.htm[/url]

If you plug 12 in the box for diameter it will tell you the circumference is 37.6991118. Divide 37.6991118 by 2 (because you are making a half circle) your answer is 18.845. Thats how much pipe you need per bow to make a perfect half circle. Obviously we dont have to be that accurate. Im not cutting the pipe down.

A 20 foot wide hoop:

62.83/2 = 31.41

You would use 3 pieces of the pipe.

The calc. is nice because you can check on how much waste you might have, without going thru the trouble to actually make the bender and bend the pipe. For instance, lets say you wanted a 16 foot wide house.

50.26/2 = 25.13

You have 2 options. Cut off roughly 5 feet of pipe, or do the math and leave approx. 2.5 five feet on each side straight.

[QUOTE=Cole_Robbie;549276]I don't see a way to secure the hoop to the rebar stake? My first greenhouse was a Clearspan kit. The ground stakes are slightly larger pipe than the hoops, which slide into them and then carriage bolt together.[/QUOTE]

Obviously this is something that an individual would have to take into consideration based on their location. If I lived in the Plains or the Midwest, then I wouldnt hesitate to use concrete for anchors. :lol:
Im in the Piedmont region of NC, so no coastal winds and no mountain snows. Its pretty ideal really. With that being said, I will probably use the same method that is on my small GH. It uses 30 inch ground stakes with steel cable in each corner. So far, so good.

good write-up, thank you

Update because of issues.
 

First. Thanks Uncle Doss.

Second. So I have still been toying with the bender. I thought I would update this for anyone who really wants to make this, since some interest has developed. I don't want someone left out in the weeds when their hoops don't work out.

What triggered this is that my second hoop was a disaster. I struggled to compress it enough. I actually ruined a piece of pipe when the swagged end buckled. My 3rd hoop made me realize something was wrong. My 4th hoop gave me redemption that im on to something.

This will be a ongoing update as I have now bent 4 hoops (I guess 4.5 since I had to fix half of #2). Only 9 more to go.:cute:

One of the issues to deal with is the "spring back" of the pipe. That is the tendency for the pipe to recoil back. The pipe simply wont stay 100% percent where you bent it. Its just the nature of Alloy Metal.

I have the solution, and the solution creates a second problem. Seems thats how things go for me. I'll cover both starting with the first issue.

The solution is to make your radius tighter then you actually need. I subtracted 1 foot off of my measurements. So, for a 12 foot wide house, the radius is 6. As you recall from above, I said:

[B][I]"Step 6.

Continue measuring up the length of the long 2x4 until you reach 6 foot. Now add 1 extra inch. 6 foot because this is your radius, plus 1 inch because you measured in 1 inch in the previous step. See photo 4."[/I][/B]

Nix that 6 foot. I changed that to 5 foot. So now you are drawing out the arc for a 10 foot circle, instead of 12. This may seem really drastic, but in the real world, you still have to compress the pipe a bit to make it slide over the rebar pounded into the ground. You can thank "spring back" for that.

Right now, I can only comment on a 12 footer. Other sizes of houses would be trial and error. But I would guess that 20 foot wide house would probably need roughly 2 feet taken off the radius. But again that is only a guess.

Now the second problem. Because we have monkeyed around with the radius, there is a tenancy for the ends of the pipe to curve in on itself. I have included a pic below and you can see this for yourself.

The solution is to leave approx 6 inches of pipe sticking out of the bender, when you bend your pipe. 4 inches might work just as well. The original MFR of the Hoop Bender states the same. To mark the pipe and leave 6 inches sticking out. I couldn't figure that out for the life of me as to why. Now I understand.

Now, for a small upgrade to the building process of the bender itself. Switch out the string with a piece of 1x2 pine, or something similar. Drill a hole in the end for a pencil to barely slide thru. When you draw out the arc, it is far more accurate.

Ill keep updating this as I bend more hoops.

I have been bending pipe of all kinds for 25 years.
From 4 inch sch 80 steel pipe to you name it.
What you want to do is make a mandrel so the pipe doesn't collapse.
This will work by making the center board just about as wide as the pipe is and have sides that stick up at least as much as 1/2 the diameter of the pipe.
If made it sturdy enough and the sides were all square you can bend square tubing.
The mandrel can also be made on a wood shaper with a hard piece of wood.
Any good cabinet shop with a split collar shaper can do this.
Or you may be able to cut the radius with a router.

Worth

Worth, good info. Thanks.

I might have not been clear. The swagged end buckled after I had assembled the hoop and was putting the hoops over the rebar. Not when bending the section of pipe in the hoop bender.

At some point Im waiting for someone to say "why not just buy the bender?" Its really the point of being resourceful. :yes:

[QUOTE=FourOaks;549839]Worth, good info. Thanks.

I might have not been clear. The swagged end buckled after I had assembled the hoop and was putting the hoops over the rebar. Not when bending the section of pipe in the hoop bender.

At some point Im waiting for someone to say "why not just buy the bender?" Its really the point of being resourceful. :yes:[/QUOTE]

For the same reasons when someone asked me why I just didn't buy corned beef instead of curing and making my own.
Because I can its cheaper I know what I am getting and I am not reliant on other people.

There is another method of making a hoop or large radius in pipe.
It is a little complected and you have to have your ducks in a row.
This is where you bend angles in the pipe at a certain angle and a certain distance apart.
It can be done with a common conduit bender.
This is a really slick way to do it if you want to install glass panels.
Worth

That's why I made my high tunnel have vertical sidewalls:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/J4aw0Za.jpg[/IMG]

My hoops have a very shallow curve. It was easy to do, and took virtually zero skill. I didn't crumble any tubing; I don't think I came close, because I didn't bend it very much.

Top rail is ridiculously thin. The only thing thinner are the sleeve clamps that connect two unswagged ends. Those things are like aluminum foil. I learned that after 10" of ice smashed the tunnel in the picture, and I had to put it back together.

[QUOTE=Worth1;549848]For the same reasons when someone asked me why I just didn't buy corned beef instead of curing and making my own.
Because I can its cheaper I know what I am getting and I am not reliant on other people.

There is another method of making a hoop or large radius in pipe.
It is a little complected and you have to have your ducks in a row.
This is where you bend angles in the pipe at a certain angle and a certain distance apart.
It can be done with a common conduit bender.
This is a really slick way to do it if you want to install glass panels.
Worth[/QUOTE]

I ran across an article a while back on that. I believe for a 10 foot piece of conduit, you would bend 5 degrees every 6.28 inches.

Radius (in inches) x 1.57 =a
then divide by 18

I think thats it.. ;)

[QUOTE=Cole_Robbie;549850]That's why I made my high tunnel have vertical sidewalls:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/J4aw0Za.jpg[/IMG]

My hoops have a very shallow curve. It was easy to do, and took virtually zero skill. I didn't crumble any tubing; I don't think I came close, because I didn't bend it very much.

Top rail is ridiculously thin. The only thing thinner are the sleeve clamps that connect two unswagged ends. Those things are like aluminum foil. I learned that after 10" of ice smashed the tunnel in the picture, and I had to put it back together.[/QUOTE]

I have seen your pictures. Really sorry that you had the disaster that you did. 10 inches of ice is nothing to laugh about.

It was a learning experience. It cost me three days work and about $35 of new pipe. I re-used all the old stuff. I've never using those sleeve clamps again. EMT conduit is much better as a sleeve clamp.

[QUOTE=Cole_Robbie;549906]It was a learning experience. It cost me three days work and about $35 of new pipe. I re-used all the old stuff. I've never using those sleeve clamps again. EMT conduit is much better as a sleeve clamp.[/QUOTE]

So.. Im guessing your hoops are fence rail, and the conduit slides over the outer diameter?

Also, what size of house? Looks like 16 foot?

Yes. It's 1 3/8" chain link top rail. It will slide into 1 1/2" metal conduit fittings. Top rail is tubing, which quotes the outside diameter as the size. EMT is pipe, which quotes the inside diameter for sizes. For the building pictured, I cut 90 degree conduit elbows in half to make 45s. Those sink into chain link posts, and the conduit goes into that. Here's a pic: [url]http://i.imgur.com/CoWb0Um.jpg[/url]

The high tunnel pictured is 18x48. The peak is 8' and the sides are 4'. I built it low to the ground for the sake of being strong against the wind. The compromise is that it doesn't handle snow very well. I really should take the plastic off every fall, but I end up just going out there and knocking the snow off when we have it. I only had to do that once this past winter.

Well i am hooked on this idea and i already have some top rail just laying in a pile. Not enough to do a 20x40 but every little bit helps.

Here is an Instructable [url]http://www.instructables.com/id/Hoop-Bender/[/url] I am sure all of you have seen this one.

I like how he uses his router to hold the top rail in place on the plywood.

[QUOTE=MrSalvage;551906]Well i am hooked on this idea and i already have some top rail just laying in a pile. Not enough to do a 20x40 but every little bit helps.

Here is an Instructable [URL]http://www.instructables.com/id/Hoop-Bender/[/URL] I am sure all of you have seen this one.

I like how he uses his router to hold the top rail in place on the plywood.[/QUOTE]

The groove is what I was talking about in an earlier post.

Worth

Yea I know Worth... You posted a few ways for the top rail not to collapse. I just remember reading that over there the other day and thought to myself I am not paying 85.00 bucks to do this. I will build my own from salvaged crap around here.

Now if you could figure out my math problem in the grow bag thread. lol my math does suck...

For anyone interested. I have been working on and finished all the rail for this greenhouse. All 13 sections. Ill post pictures tomorrow. Kinda dark out now.

I am always interested in this sort of thing.
Tomato crossing no but this yes.:lol:

Worth

[QUOTE=Worth1;551933]I am always interested in this sort of thing.
Tomato crossing no but this yes.:lol:

Worth[/QUOTE]

Talk about something confusing.. :dizzy: I have off and on studied up on crossing. Honestly, if you have the patience be my guest.