day pics..unknown area/need advise to turn into a greenhouse
 

This area, we are not sure what its for. We have decided to turn into a grow house/greenhouse (as opposed to a guest house we were originally contemplating). It has a roof and walls but no front at all. The floor is cement and we thought for potted tomatoes. We have ripped up enough cement in the yard that had way to much cement, we figure we will keep it that way. We want to utilize this area. Any advise on steps to take to do this? Please no ideas about tearing the whole thing down and starting over. Thanks all. Here are some pics I just took, its dark out but you might get the general idea.

[img]http://www.ssb5.net/users/17966/dsc00413.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.ssb5.net/users/17966/dsc00414.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.ssb5.net/users/17966/dsc00415.jpg[/img]

Thanks everyone for your time

Show some day time pictures.

What's the orientation?

How much do you want to spend?

dcarch

Here are some daytime pics. We dont want to spend too much, but we dont want to redo it every year. So cost can really vary..I need to get the grill and dryer etc (junk) out of there. We put the old dryer out there so we can dry the coverings over the plants in the small part of the garden right by that area and keep my plants warm from the freezes we have already gotten.........We plan on using it for starting seeds as well as containers for tomatoes etc. If we can do it before the winter it will add even more room for a heated grow house/greenhouse for some dwarf varieties i am hoping to grow over the winter....Thanks for your time

Heather

[img]http://www.ssb5.net/users/17966/dsc00417.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.ssb5.net/users/17966/dsc00416.jpg[/img]

Do you have a Farmtek catalog?

If not, get one soon. farmtek.com

What' behind the struture?

What's the roof made of?

dcarch

Do you have a Farmtek catalog? No ...I get one ordered today

What' behind the struture? Behind the structure is a house only about 25 feet away. We have seen someone there once only. Almost all of our yard is past all of the buildings. The door to the right is our house, the door to the left is our garage, but there is also a covered carport up front and we use the garage as a storage shed.

What's the roof made of? The roof is shingled (just like the house and garage) and this area actually connects the house to the garage.

1. What's the typical high wind speed?

2. What’s the worst snow fall you got (inches)?

3. Are you going to do the work yourself?

4. Looks like the height is about 6'8", yes?

5. What’s the distance between the house and garage? 16’?

6. How wide is it? 8’?

7. What do you want to grow in the green house?

dcarch

Is the open side south-facing? (Did I miss that info above somewhere?)

P.S.: Nice bird feeder.

dcarch

Hi, The open side is Southwest and the area gets about 8 hours of sunlight a day.

The birdfeeder was one of the many things we inherited when we bought the house. The birds here do not fly south for the winter as I had thought birds do. They are out there all winter in the freezing temps....and in the winter I go through 2 pounds of bird food every 2 weeks. Then in the spring I have to pull millet etc... out of the garden and yard...

1. What's the typical high wind speed? Average is 20-30 as high winds but the plastic tent like coldframe we have blew away on a 50 miles wind we once had

2. What’s the worst snow fall you got (inches)? Im not sure, they say we dont get too much snow, we average 1/2 inch a month. But they say we can get heavy snow....I have yet to see it. We moved here from Southern California in January

3. Are you going to do the work yourself? Me and DH and my Stepdad. Both of them are pretty handy, but they need a plan.... Or I will have the mortgage on the house paid off before they come up with any ideas...

4. Looks like the height is about 6'8", yes? The height slopes and the low point is 7 foot and the high point is 8 foot

5. What’s the distance between the house and garage? 21 1/2 foot

6. How wide is it? 10 1/2 foot...

7. What do you want to grow in the green house? Hopefully potted plants like tomatoes and peppers. to help extend the growing season. Add some heat on the really cold nights that it gets below freezing and maybe, even get a really nice start on the potted plants.

Thanks everyone... I know the area looks horrible now, but we had no use for it but storage. 1 hour and we can get it cleaned up so its not too aweful...and that dumb red sign wound up "supporting" some items I ordered during shipment.. I figure it would be useful for something eventually.

Heather

[u]1. Cheapest solution:[/u]

UV vinyl hung in front :
[url]http://www.farmtek.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10052&storeId=10001&langId=-1&division=FarmTek&productId=139268[/url]

Because this is not insulated, you cannot grow anything in it other then starting seedlings.


[u]2. DIY solution:[/u]
a. In your area you may need insulated polycarbonate panels at least 8mm thick. Triple-wall even better if you can afford it. Insulated glass walls are probably out of the question, especially if you have hail in your area.
b. Cover the front with the poly panels. Frame the panels to about 2’ x 4’ to avoid wind damage.
c. If you have 8 hours of sun, you will need ventilation.
d. You may want to remove the roof and make the roof clear also. In the winter time the angle of the sun is low and can’t get in too far to the back of the greenhouse.
e. Paint the cement floor black to retain solar heat.
You still cannot grow things in the greenhouse year round unless you have a heating system, but the growing time in much longer than an un-insulated greenhouse.

Depending on your workmanship and design ability, if you don’t think you can make a very good-looking greenhouse, you can really depress the real estate value of your property. You may want to consider the following:

[u]3. Buy a greenhouse:[/u]

a. Demolish what you have, and buy a greenhouse kit. You can get two 10’x12’ at $600.00 each from:
[url]http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93358[/url]

There are many other options and prices.

dcarch

I'd agree that the roof should be replaced with a clear material. I think it will be way too dark for good growth otherwise.

Whatever you do you'll need these:

[url=http://www.freeww.com/shelves.html]Free plans for wall shelves including floating shelves, garage shelves, bathroom shelves, corner shelves, decorative shelves, standing shelves and building shelves![/url]

Look here too: (22564 links for Free Woodworking Plans, Free Woodworking Projects and Top Quality Patterns - WoodworkersWorkshop.com)

[url=http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/resources/index.php?cat=102]Free Woodworking Plans, Free Woodworking Projects and Top Quality Patterns[/url]

[url=http://www.growersupply.com/greenplas.html]Growersupply.Com[/url] Greenhouse Plastic & Accessories

[url=http://bioengr.ag.utk.edu/Extension/ExtPubs/PlanList97.htm#Greenhouse%20Plans]The Agricultural Building & Equipment Plan List[/url]

I love it,!! We are going to do the insulated polycarbonate panels at least 8mm thick....Thats not alot of $ I think it will be about 350.00.
I am going to buy 10MM Twin-Wall Polycarbonate
Clear, UV-resistant polycarbonate is now available in 10mm twin-wall.
• For extreme weather conditions! 10mm polycarbonate offers better insulation qualities and superior heat retention.
• 10mm polycarbonate Channels and Profiles simplify assembly, and offer a professional, finished appearance.

Does that sound OK?

I dont want to tear down and rebuild because the roof is attached to the house and garage roof and was redone just before we moved in by the people before us. Which brings the lighting issue. I cant redo to a clear roof...However, I can buy supplemental lighting....any advise on it? I think I might get enough, but I think an lighting investment will work. We also, are going to heat it, as I am getting some MR Heater thing for my Birthday. It was intended for the plastic tent (cold frame?) outside, but I have a fear of fire and more than once I have had to catch it from blowing away. It has a nice steel frame and is 9'x10' but .....I can see a heather blowing over if I used one in there.
I forwarded the links for the plans to my step Dad and DH... Thanks again, I also found the replacement plastic film I will need for the tent house outside. And some things to keep the plastic from blowing off too>

As for ventillation, That is something I never thought of and I am glad it was brought up....

Demolish it! That's an order!

[img]http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i240/dcarch/G7.jpg[/img]

dcarch :twisted: :twisted: :lol: :lol:

Now that sure would be ideal.... I would love to be able to do that...I even like the planters... Which of course will be done next year. This year most of the attention was done to the front yard...The weeds have now become grass. The trees have been trimmed and herbs and flowers have filled the planters. We bought this place off the internet and when we moved in it was covered with snow. DH says your fabulous with the photos.... NOW if I become a millionaire and win the lotto, thats what we will have for certain

You know, if you are going to heat it, in fact, just in general, any greenhouse attached to a structure should have particular attention paid to moisture proofing and vapor control between any existing wood structure and the greenhouse area.

That makes sense so I dont rot the wood etc. Ill have DH work on that. Thank you

[quote=landarc]You know, if you are going to heat it, in fact, just in general, any greenhouse attached to a structure should have particular attention paid to moisture proofing and vapor control between any existing wood structure and the greenhouse area.[/quote]
Good point. landarc

To be considered:
1. Moisture forms on surfaces that's colder. If your house is warmer, moisture is not a problem; however, if the garage is colder, moisture will condense on the garage area.
2. Moisture vapor can migrate thru structure unless vapor barrier is used. They sell vapor barrier paint.
3. some commercial greenhouse frames has built-in gutter system to drain away water.
4. some plastic wall panels are treated to "sheet" water away.
5. Treated wood should be used if possible. Check and avoid if the wood is treated with arsenic.

dcarch

One more thing re. moisture:

All dissimilar metals must not make contact with each other in the presence of moisture. they should be insulated or isolated to avoid electro-galvanic corrosion.

dcarch

And, most pressure-treated wood these days is saturated with copper, so has the same galvanic issues...

Looks like you could remove part of the roof... the lowest 4x8 pieces of plywood and shingles and replace that with sometype of corrugated, clear roofing to allow more natural light, especially since it's facing SW.

Good luck to you. What a great project.

The teardown should be a snap, especially with 2 eager men around with hammers and saws! I love the structure and it shouldn't be much to do something simple like what the computer generated plan showed. I'm on board - Tear it down!

Alternatively, you might consider taking the roof off this year and doing a poly carb roof in its place and doing the front in polycarb with metal framing as shown, then next year take the back wall out and complete the structure. I'm jealous! You can't go wrong with whatever you do as long as you open it up if you're going to grow in it.

PS... It would not be too difficult to heat with the attached house and garage. Just a thought. Beautiful!

Another thought about that front wall, do it in cedar 2X4's instead of the metal. Easier for the do-it-yourself'er and more easliy planned. May be easier to tie into also as you progress and you can plan each opening with the polycarb sheet size in mind. Either way, have fun! :arrow:

Thanks everyone. I think maybe next year they may do the roof. But for now we will definately be doing the poly carbonate out in the front. We will extend the roof out a bit with the polycarbonate as well. I cant wait to post pics of how it comes out..

The good and bad news. The bad news is we cant completely make the roof clear, and remove it etc. Way to costly.... BUT we are doing 50% skylights with poly carbonite. Its better than nothing. :)

I'd love to see new pics or hear an update on this project!

The project is about 50% right now as we stopped working on it due to the weather. But in April we plan on it being fully functional. OK maybe not half completed but we have 7 skylights in.... So far thats all we have accomplished. It will be done when it warms up. I think that was the hardest part
WELCOME to tomatoville Johno!

Could you put in several skylights in that covered roof portion? that might cut down a bit on your lighting needs-

Also, the front face of it (facing out)- you can line with water barrels as you find them- water holds a lot of heat and may significantly reduce your need for a heater with enough bulk of water (search Passive Solar designs)

Then, as long as its doesnt freeze completely hard out in that area, you could bring in your wormbins for better production year round!

Yes, the skylights were put in the roof portion :) I like the water barrel idea to save on heating costs and the idea of the worms being a bit "protected" out there. Its better than the freezing temps out side. Thank you for the ideas garnetmoth :)

dcarch said
"1. Moisture forms on surfaces that's colder."

Actually, its the other way around. Warm air holds more moisture, and when in contact with colder objects the moisture in the warm air will condense on the surface of the warm side.

That's why moisture barriers are always placed on the heated side of walls floors etc. (foil faced wall insulation,etc.)

That's why we have coasters, to protect the table, because the condensation forms ofn the outside of the glass. : )