Problem making CRW cages
 

I bought a 150' roll of concrete reinforcing wire to make some additional cages for my garden this year.

I've made cages before, and my method is to cut one end of the piece flush, and use the 6" horizontal pieces on the other end to make hooks to close it into a cylinder. Using the whole 6" allows me to make a big secure bend by hand. (I've seen people use a nut driver to make a smaller hook instead, which to me seems more difficult.)

Now to my problem. With the new CRW, when I try to make the bend, the 6" piece is breaking off about half the time. I realize that I don't need a loop at every possible point, but they like to break in really inconvenient places, like the three places on an end. :evil:

The first time I did this, I never had a problem with the pieces breaking off, so maybe I'm just dealing with inferior material (and CRW isn't really designed for these bends, right?).

Are there any suggestions for how to avoid this problem? I don't think the nut-driver method will help here, as it requires at least as tight a bend as what I do by hand.

Anyone with suggestions is eligible for some FREE* (slightly irregular) tomato cages! ;)

*Does not include shipping and $499 handling fee.

I think you don't want to bend it at the point where it intersects with the vertical piece (ie. the point at which it is welded). I use a heavy duty pliers and put the point of the six inch piece of CRW into the pliers until it stops. Then, bend the piece so the end of the pliers forms the bend. You get a uniform bend every time. Once you have formed the bend, you can remove the pliers, then use the two ends of the pliers to pull the two sides together by squeezing the pliers. Hopefully, you get what I am trying to say.

These are the pliers I use:

[url]http://www.homedepot.com/Husky/h_d1/N-5yc1vZrd/R-100651727/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053[/url]

You may want to consider joining the ends of the CRW cages together with 1/8" Wire Rope Clips.

[IMG]http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af179/rnews/MalleableWRClip.jpg[/IMG]

This would eliminate the bending you have been doing (no cutting yourself) as well as being removable at the end of the Season, in case you want to lay the CRW flat for Winter storage.:yes:

I use these for all kinds of applications around the house. $0.11 each when you buy a box of one hundred at this link; $5.00 flat rate shipping:

[URL]http://www.pambinaimpex.com/servlet/Detail?no=49[/URL]

They are about $0.45 each at Lowes, for reference in case you just need a few to use. Again, a less bloody way to make CRW cages.:cry:

Raybo

p.s. You may want to go up a size for the thickness of the CRW to a 3/16" wire rope clip:

[url]http://www.pambinaimpex.com/servlet/Detail?no=52[/url]

$0.14 each.

Thanks Ray! I appreciate the links.

Yeah, I agree, the spot where the weld occurs is affected by the heat of the spot weld and becomes harder and more brittle, so more subject to metal fatigue. You'd have to heat and quench it in certain ways to rearrange the steel atoms to soften those spots again. I think I'd go with either suggestion above.

Ya I dont remember my 150' roll breaking off points like that and thats how I made mine. As the cages get older and I modify a few I've had this happen a couple times but not much. Thats kind of weird that those points are breaking so often and easy. I like recruiterg advice though, maybe that will help. I also really like Raybo's idea too. I gotta get me some wire rope clips soon as I'm not done modifying my cages.


Damon

Damon,

I just ordered another 100 of the 1/8" wire rope clips today for the EarthTainer III cages. I'm sure I will have extras, so let me know how many you will need.

Also, If you join the cage at the vertical "seam", I think you could get away with one clip 6" up from the bottom, one clip in the center, and one clip 6" down from the top.

Raybo

p.s. Further thinking this method of attachment through, you could make half-height (or full) cage extensions, and if you've been careful in matching finished diameters, you could use perhaps 4 of these Wire Rope Clips to attach the bottom extension rim to the top rim of the base cage, each placed 90 degrees apart.

The nice thing about making bends for closing the cages is that you can undo the cages at the end of the year and stack them on top of each other so they take up less space in the backyard.

Use a propane torch and warm that metal up a bit before you bend it. When you get done with the bending, a few sprits of Rustoleum spray paint will help slow down any "extra" rusting.

Ted

Thanks everyone -- these are great suggestions. I guess it stands to reason that the metal would be the most brittle at the weld-points, but like Damon, past experience suggested that I could get away with making those bends.

I'm going to go ahead and try Raybo's suggestion. This will allow me to add clip to the 'slightly irregular' cages I've already made, and I can use the clips to make extensions, an idea I've been toying with (after last year's Opalka grew out of the 5' cage, all the way back down to the ground, and then crawled along the ground for an extra couple of feet).

Thanks again!

Pyrrho,

Before you order a bunch of them from the link I posted, I would go to Lowes and buy one each of the 1/8" and 3/16" sizes, to the test in joining the seam together. Once you see which size works better, you can then order the proper size over the Internet.

My Daddy always taught me: [I][B]"Measure Twice - Cut Once".[/B][/I]

Raybo;)

[QUOTE=rnewste;200681]Pyrrho,

Before you order a bunch of them from the link I posted, I would go to Lowes and buy one each of the 1/8" and 3/16" sizes, to the test in joining the seam together. Once you see which size works better, you can then order the proper size over the Internet.

My Daddy always taught me: [I][B]"Measure Twice - Cut Once".[/B][/I]

Raybo;)[/QUOTE]

Sounds like a good idea. Thanks!

I've been looking at the CRW this year and it appears to have small indentations on the wire that is caused by the gripping mechanism used in the manufacturing process or welding process. My guess these are now stress points and that is where it is breaking. Why they have to screw up a good thing is beyond me. I wish someone would manufacture some that is galvanized and made specifically for making cages.

Zip ties will work to join them too and be a lot cheaper than the ware rope clips

Zip ties are like duct tape for the garden. I use them all over the place.

yeah sometimes they break. when this happens i am gentle and slowly close them, i twist mine 2 times so i really stress it. i tried zip ties and they break down in the sun - they are good for a year don't use them unless you want to redo it every year. try using a synthetic cord. i've used venetian blind cord on my trellis, use something that is not cotton. tie the ends of the cage. if synthetic cord is used it should last a long time.

Zip ties tend to break down in the sunlight and crack easily. I have used hog rings to put together cattle panels and metal bread or cupcake trays to make cages. I get them at Tractor Supply.

Just some follow-up notes. I went to the nearest Home Depot today and couldn't find wire rope clips to determine the appropriate size as Raybo suggested. What I did find was wire rope, and the diameter of the 1/8" rope matches the CRW exactly. I'll go ahead and order the 1/8" clips, and let everyone know if there's a problem with the fit.

I looked at my cages again this morning, and while I initially described my method as bending the wire at the weld point, this really isn't the case: when I bend it around the other vertical wire to close the cylinder, the apex of the bend (the most stressed point) is about 1/2" away from the weld point, and the break points are at this 1/2" distance from the weld as well. The weld doesn't seem to be the cause of the problem, but rather the wire itself.

When I compared my new CRW with what I used on the older cages I noticed a difference: the new wire has a kind of stamped texturing throughout the wire, whereas the older wire is smooth. I assume the texturing might help hold the concrete in place when the CRW is used for its original purpose, but it may account for the stress in the material that causes it to break.

I bought my (textured) CRW at Lowes, but I noticed that the CRW at Home Depot didn't seem to have this texturing (it was way up on a shelf, so I can't say for certain). That said, if you can get CRW from a number of outlets, you might want to try to get the smooth wire.

I also noticed that zip ties are $6/100, as opposed to the $16/100 (incl. shipping) for the wire rope clips, so the price difference isn't huge -- unless you're buying really large quantities.

I saw some stainless steel zip ties that were $4 for a pack of 10. I don't know how well they'd work for this job, but I don't think they'd crack the way the plastic ones do. Kinda pricey though.

I think you are going to have a more rigid cage system using the wire rope clips vs. zip ties. Also, the wire rope clips are reusable, where the zip ties are not.:o

For attaching the upper extension cages, I would never use a plastic material like zip ties. Here, the metal wire rope clips will make the base and extension cage sections seem like one.:yes:

Raybo

Too bad you guys dont have a TIG welder like I do, it would solve all of your problems.:)

Worth

I made some 20+ years ago and they are still going strong. I used hog rings to secure the ends together, about 4 per cage. Never had a problem with them breaking.

Frank

[quote=frankkj;201518]I made some 20+ years ago and they are still going strong. I used hog rings to secure the ends together, about 4 per cage. Never had a problem with them breaking.

Frank[/quote]

Just to clarify things, a "hog ring" is what they put through a hogs nose to keep it from rooting.

They have been used for many things one is in the upholstery business another to put together fish traps.
A wonderfull idea for the tomato cages, 'yet another use for the lowly hog ring.:yes:
Just dont forget to get your "hog ring pliers" with the hog rings.:roll:
Worth

[QUOTE=Worth1;201461]Too bad you guys dont have a TIG welder like I do, it would solve all of your problems.:)

Worth[/QUOTE]

I my sister probably has one, but she lives in New York.

The wire rope clips (1/8") arrived today, so I'll be giving those a try this weekend -- if I can find time after FINALLY starting my seeds!!! :D

You can get uv resistant zip ties, I know because I bought some. And I use them for attaching my CRW cages to my swc's. They work great for that and are solid for one year. But I'd use the wire rope clips for joining the cages for sure.


Damon

OK I've chewed on this for a while about the tie wraps.

First of all the cheap tie wraps some of you guys are getting must be from the big box store.
I have used tie wraps for years outside, many thousands of them.
They are used in cable trays in the petro-chemical industrty.
They are made by these people and they last for years. You get the good ones at an electrical supply house.

[url]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnb.com%2F&rct=j&q=thomas%20betts&ei=nLpnTeOVFsPKgQfZ8uTLCg&usg=AFQjCNESVCoQlJa0Zh3-28g8jPrktpReuw&sig2=_9vsWO-cjGKIAJyAO5bgyQ&cad=rja[/url]

I always used the black ones.

Worth

I'm with Worth. The zip ties I use seem to last forever. I have some that I used to attach a coax cable to the TV antenna mast over 10 years ago. They're still there and they're holding up fine. I get them an electrical supply house. They come in a bag of 100 or so for a few bucks. At the end of the season I just cut them off with wire cutters and store my cages flat. It saves a lot of room.

[quote=Worth1;201727]OK I've chewed on this for a while about the tie wraps.

First of all the cheap tie wraps some of you guys are getting must be from the big box store.
I have used tie wraps for years outside, many thousands of them.
They are used in cable trays in the petro-chemical industrty.
They are made by these people and they last for years. You get the good ones at an electrical supply house.

[URL]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tnb.com%2F&rct=j&q=thomas%20betts&ei=nLpnTeOVFsPKgQfZ8uTLCg&usg=AFQjCNESVCoQlJa0Zh3-28g8jPrktpReuw&sig2=_9vsWO-cjGKIAJyAO5bgyQ&cad=rja[/URL]

I always used the black ones.

Worth[/quote]

Worth is correct, there are some made to be used in uv and they last for YEARS. We have used them for years on our cranberry bogs, but I do order them special for use outside. You can get black or white, if it matters.;) They are pretty cheap in bulk. If I remember right $19/thousand last time I bought them.
Tom

FWIW,
Some zip ties are UV rated. They will last for many seasons.
Look for the UV on the package.
Ken

Ya you know what. I ended up using the uv zip ties for everything, closing cages and mounting them. Too much time and effort on the wire rope clips. Zip ties are sooooo easy.

Damon

All you need is a decent pair of fencing tool pliers. You can cut the wire with them, grab hold and twist it wherever you want with a twist of the wrist. I have over 400 cages and every one was put together with a fencing tool. You should be able to find it at any farm supply store.
Camo

Frank, talked about hog rings in post 20... I also have used them to make all my cages and many other wire projects... they are cheap, strong, weather proof and you can remove them easily to change shape or whatever.
Home Depot and Lowe's carry them.
On my large varieties of tomatoes I sometimes stack a second cage on the first and they are strong enough to handle this also. :surprised: