Starting Long-day Onions Indoors
 

I’m planning to start Copra and a few other onions early, under lights, and I’m curious if I need to limit the number of hours of light I provide. With tomatoes and peppers, I usually have the lights on for about 14 hours each day. Is this too much for long-day onions at the seedling stage?

all plants get 16 hours of light and 8 hours of total darkness. i hope you aren't starting those now? i start mine on 2/1.

Thanks for the advice, Tom. No, not starting them yet.:)

Are you growing anything other than Copra next year? I was looking at Turtle Tree Seeds ([url]http://www.turtletreeseed.com[/url]) - I think they supply some seeds to Fedco, among others. They list Clear Dawn - the OP version of Copra - as well as a few others that look interesting.

i only grow copra and red wing. they are both very long term storage, copra is perhaps the longest of any onion. this gives me a yellow and red onion that i can have for months. red wing keeps maybe 9-10 months and this year i had them a full year. it is common for copra to keep a full year even 15 months. typically i have last years onions when pulling this years.

I grew Clear Dawn a few years back and found it was a good onion. The necks were thinner than Copra and it stored really well, but not quite as long as Copra. Clear Dawn was slightly smaller as well. I've never had good luck storing any onion past May, though.

Thanks for the comments on Clear Dawn, Kath!

Have you started onions already? I started spanish onion Ringmaster and Morada de Amposta indoors on Jan 15 to get an early start. I have most of the seedlings up already.

I'm starting mine next week.

Copra
Clear Dawn
Australian Brown
Yellow of Parma
Red Long of Tropea
Maria Nagy's Transylvanian Red
Stuttgarter
Giant Zittau

I've only grown Copra and Red Long in the past, so I'd welcome comments regarding any of the others.

Also grew Stuttgarter from sets one year when I didn't want to bother with seeds because Agway said it was by far their longest storage variety. It sized up really well, tasted fine, and stored well, but not like Copra.
I also grew Yellow of Parma the year I tried Clear Dawn. Yellow of Parma was larger but their wasn't much difference in terms of storage or taste for us. We don't use onions raw very often and when cooked they seem pretty much the same...no gourmets here! Basically, I'd be happy with anything that kept longer than Copra or kept as well and was sweeter.

Kath, just wondering; since you don't use raw onions very often, why not just dice and freeze, or saute and freeze? Then you don't have the storage worries. Just as an aside, we have found that Candy stores quite well. When they all start sprouting in the Spring, I just whack 'em up, saute and freeze. Maybe this year will dehydrate some as well.

Will be starting the leeks, shallots, onions (Candy, Red Zeppelin, Bedfordshire Champion, Red Bull and Ailsa Craig) and scallions at the end of February. We always seem to get reasonable harvests, even in our short season. Like Tom, they will receive 16 hours of light, and will be shipped out to the garage where it is colder as soon as they are about three inches tall (still under lights, 16 hours). As soon as it is a few degrees above freezing, they will gradually be hardened off, and by mid April will be moved outside, to spend the night indoors only if it goes well below the freezing mark.

By the way, has anyone here grown Kelsae onion? It seems they are having difficulty in producing seed the past few years.

[quote=wmontanez;196081]Have you started onions already? I started spanish onion Ringmaster and Morada de Amposta indoors on Jan 15 to get an early start. I have most of the seedlings up already.[/quote]

wendy,

since you are in my general area, tho nw mass is a lot different than along the ocean and i have no idea where you are, i'd be curious how your onions do being started so early.

have you started them on 1/15 in past seasons? if so when do you put them out? does such an early start give you larger onions or an earlier harvest? i'd think that dtm are pretty much the same as if started on say 2/15 but i'm curious.

1/15 sounds awful early for this area.

tom

Salix,
Thanks for the suggestions. Have tried chopping and freezing, but they really stunk up everything in the freezer (just like hot pepper do). Since I freeze lots of fruit, that's not a good thing. Do you know if they are less stinky once they're sauteed and then frozen?
I'm going to get a dehydrator this year, so that will be a definite possibility, too. Figure I can dehydrate on the back screened porch and keep most of the smell outside that way.
Somehow I thought Candy wasn't suited to our climate, but was more of a southern onion...guess not! Will look into that one...sweet AND stores well...didn't think there was one like that!
kath

[QUOTE=salix;196129]Kath, just wondering; since you don't use raw onions very often, why not just dice and freeze, or saute and freeze? Then you don't have the storage worries. Just as an aside, we have found that Candy stores quite well. When they all start sprouting in the Spring, I just whack 'em up, saute and freeze. Maybe this year will dehydrate some as well.

Will be starting the leeks, shallots, onions (Candy, Red Zeppelin, Bedfordshire Champion, Red Bull and Ailsa Craig) and scallions at the end of February. We always seem to get reasonable harvests, even in our short season. Like Tom, they will receive 16 hours of light, and will be shipped out to the garage where it is colder as soon as they are about three inches tall (still under lights, 16 hours). As soon as it is a few degrees above freezing, they will gradually be hardened off, and by mid April will be moved outside, to spend the night indoors only if it goes well below the freezing mark.

By the way, has anyone here grown Kelsae onion? It seems they are having difficulty in producing seed the past few years.[/QUOTE]

Hello Tom,

First time with onions. I read that 12 weeks before setting outdoors was the time to sow seeds, so I think is safe to put onions around April 15 here. I also start peppers around the same time. Easy to remember. If it works for you with a month later is great to know. Last year I followed the package instructions with spanish onions and got ONE tiny onion not even worth describing. The rest just stood there so I left them in the ground all winter. I will keep u posted regarding the growth with these onions, I have high expectations.

I live near NH border (in Lowell)

wendy,

i always read to start them 8 weeks prior to putting them out. i used to start them on 2/22 but backed it up to 2/15 last year and i was considering trying 2/1 this year tho that's a little early as i put them out on 4/15 to 4/20. guess you can try 1/15 and see.

tom

Maybe I'm not doing something right, but at 8 weeks my onions just look like tiny blades of grass-well, maybe more like chives. Even at 12 weeks, there's not much to them. :?

Kath, last year I started seed for all of my Alliums on 1 March. They were moved out to the unheated garage (still under lights, tho') on 18 March, at which point they did indeed look like little grass sprouts. By the way, I sort of do a dense type of sowing, but in short rows in fairly deep containers. OK, OK, they are Costco salad containers with holes punched in the bottom and are at least 6 years old!! At that point they had probably been watered at least once with dilute seaweed or manure tea. On 25 March they were put outside in a sheltered spot for an hour to start the hardening off process. By 31 March they were left out all day and overnight, even though the temperatures were only about1 degree above freezing. They were sheltered under a walkway, and sheltered from any strong north winds. Brought them in on 9 April because temps went down to -9C. Warmed up a bit the next day and at that point took them from under the walkway and started to harden them off to bright sunlight. Were probably getting watered once a week with the diluted compost tea. They were planted in-ground on 18 May at our remote garden which is zone 2 (and was still freezing some nights). At that point they are about the size of chives with only 2 or 3 leaves. I think having to cope with the cold temperatures keeps them "compact". I plant them on 6" centres and keep 'em well weeded. No fertilizing done, just the raised beds amended with compost before planting. Harvested on 7 September, good size and great condition, after having endured several light frosty nights. I just give them a quick rinse (weather had been quite rainy so they were muddy) and let them dry outside under shelter for a couple of days. I bring them in at night, always afraid wandering bears will find them irresistable. As of today, they are still in perfect condition - I store them in open flat boxes in the unheated garage - so far this year it has only gotten down to +1 C out there, if it seems that it might freeze (only if it gets to -40 C with a wind) I would bring them inside. I expect them to remain in good condition for another couple of months, then I will deal with them (freeze or dehydrate, or make onion marmalade) because by then I will need those shelves for this years transplants.

And that's my Allium circle-of-life, LOL! My main point in this rambling post was to let you know not to worry about the size of your seedlings. I'm sure they'll be just fine.

yeah i agree my plants are not all that big re diameter when i plant out. many are ~ 3/16" but many are 1/16" or 1/8" in diameter. they grow tall and i cut them back when they get to 5" back down to 3" under the lights and i fertilize only 2 or 3 times under the lights. mine go out 4/15 or so and harvest is aug 7 to 10 for copra and red wing. i wouldn't worry that the plants are not big like many other from seed plants, onions do just fine. what i wouldn't do is direct seed we do not have the time for that in day long growing areas.

I have leeks growig in a south window that I planted 1/1/11 and trimed them yesterday. I don't start my onions any more[I BUY PLANTS ] but when I did I started them early feb. and they were so small that they were a pain to plant with my old numb fingers. Here I try to plant out the last of april and they usually get a snow or two on them. Candy is my main onion and some will store till the new crop is ready to eat.[ Tig don't like candy because they don't make him cry when he peals them ] I eat most of my onions raw and like a sweet onion.
YOPPER

[QUOTE=salix;196319]Kath, last year I started seed for all of my Alliums on 1 March. They were moved out to the unheated garage (still under lights, tho') on 18 March, at which point they did indeed look like little grass sprouts. By the way, I sort of do a dense type of sowing, but in short rows in fairly deep containers. OK, OK, they are Costco salad containers with holes punched in the bottom and are at least 6 years old!! At that point they had probably been watered at least once with dilute seaweed or manure tea. On 25 March they were put outside in a sheltered spot for an hour to start the hardening off process. By 31 March they were left out all day and overnight, even though the temperatures were only about1 degree above freezing. They were sheltered under a walkway, and sheltered from any strong north winds. Brought them in on 9 April because temps went down to -9C. Warmed up a bit the next day and at that point took them from under the walkway and started to harden them off to bright sunlight. Were probably getting watered once a week with the diluted compost tea. They were planted in-ground on 18 May at our remote garden which is zone 2 (and was still freezing some nights). At that point they are about the size of chives with only 2 or 3 leaves. I think having to cope with the cold temperatures keeps them "compact". I plant them on 6" centres and keep 'em well weeded. No fertilizing done, just the raised beds amended with compost before planting. Harvested on 7 September, good size and great condition, after having endured several light frosty nights. I just give them a quick rinse (weather had been quite rainy so they were muddy) and let them dry outside under shelter for a couple of days. I bring them in at night, always afraid wandering bears will find them irresistable. As of today, they are still in perfect condition - I store them in open flat boxes in the unheated garage - so far this year it has only gotten down to +1 C out there, if it seems that it might freeze (only if it gets to -40 C with a wind) I would bring them inside. I expect them to remain in good condition for another couple of months, then I will deal with them (freeze or dehydrate, or make onion marmalade) because by then I will need those shelves for this years transplants.

And that's my Allium circle-of-life, LOL! My main point in this rambling post was to let you know not to worry about the size of your seedlings. I'm sure they'll be just fine.[/QUOTE]

Thanks very much, Salix, for sharing all these details! I think mine could definitely use a bit more cold treatment, although they do live in the cold basement, but they get so leggy that I wind up trimming several times even before I plant them.
We have an unheated shed, but I thought it was too cold for onion storage.
Anyway, lots of things to try. Appreciate your suggestions!

kath

[QUOTE=yopper;196776] Candy is my main onion and some will store till the new crop is ready to eat.[ Tig don't like candy because they don't make him cry when he peals them ] I eat most of my onions raw and like a sweet onion.
YOPPER[/QUOTE]

Another person growing Candy in the north- definitely going to give this one a try. DH thinks an onion needs to be red to be eaten raw, but maybe this will change his mind.

[quote=yopper;196776]I have leeks growig in a south window that I planted 1/1/11 and trimed them yesterday. ...... [ Tig don't like candy because they don't make him cry when he peals them ] I eat most of my onions raw and like a sweet onion.
YOPPER[/quote]

OH NOW YOU ARE DOOMED! :evil: you planted on the most cursed day of the century .... the day of ones!:dizzy:

copra is an amazingly sweet onion, typically long storage onions have a lot of sulfur compounds and are hot! i never ate copra before feburary as i had ACE or mars that did not store beyond january. candy was ok storage wise but doesn't keep as long as copra. so this year i was eating copra in october and shocked at just how sweet it is! candy is probably sweeter than copra but since it doesn't keep as long i only grew it 1 or 2 times.

[QUOTE=tjg911;196811]OH NOW YOU ARE DOOMED! :evil: you planted on the most cursed day of the century .... the day of ones!:dizzy:

copra is an amazingly sweet onion, typically long storage onions have a lot of sulfur compounds and are hot! i never ate copra before feburary as i had ACE or mars that did not store beyond january. candy was ok storage wise but doesn't keep as long as copra. so this year i was eating copra in october and shocked at just how sweet it is! candy is probably sweeter than copra but since it doesn't keep as long i only grew it 1 or 2 times.[/QUOTE]

I do seem to remember something about Copra getting sweeter in storage and being sweeter that the typical storage onion. I don't eat raw onions, but DH does. He puts so much in the way of condiments on anything that he eats that contains an onion that it rather amazes me that he has a preference, but they do have a pretty strong taste.

Question for Tom, Yopper and Kath - is it necessary to "trim" the tops? I never have, they have never really gotten more than about 8 or 9 inches tall. That being said, they have frequently ended up with dried, twisted black leaf tips due to windburn or an unexpected quick frost. Has never seemed to hurt them or even slow them down once planted however.

i trim the tops when growing under the lights. i cut them back to ~ 1 1/2" when they get 3" tall. i looked at a ruler to know and would have sworn those measurements were at least 1" taller.

I trimmed to keep them between 3-4" while under lights to avoid the tangly mess that used to happen, thinking that it would avoid damage to the plants when trying to separate them at planting time. I was afraid to trim shorter than that, but now that I see tjg911's post, shorter would be even easier.
I remember reading that it helped them recover from transplanting if you trim a bit of the roots at transplant time, but it seems they must lose some roots in the detangling process.
Keep in mind I'm far from an onion expert!:lol:

SALIX If you asking about trimming after you set them out in the garden,imo that would be a bad idea.When you trim them as seedlings they will develope more new leaves and make the stem thicker.Each leaf makes a ring on the bulb.More leaves bigger bulb!! I agree with Tom on how to trim. YOPPER

Found this regarding day-length sensitivity at the seedling stage -

"Long day varieties start to bulb when day lengths are about 14-16 hours. If you start onion seeds indoors, keep lights on only 12 hours each day to give the plants a suitable night. Onion seedlings will form bulbs too early if exposed to long days at any time during their development. You will not get anything bigger than sets."

The whole article is from University of Minnesota here: [url]http://www.extension.umn.edu/yardandgarden/ygbriefs/h247onion.html[/url]

[quote=fortyonenorth;198858]"Long day varieties start to bulb when day lengths are about 14-16 hours. If you start onion seeds indoors, keep lights on only 12 hours each day to give the plants a suitable night. Onion seedlings will form bulbs too early if exposed to long days at any time during their development. You will not get anything bigger than sets."quote]


i disagree but you do what you think is best.

i have grown onions from seed under lights for 6 or 7 years and i always have my lights on 16 hours off 8. never have i seen any problem with the seedlings bulbing! now it is true that outside in early to mid june the 15+ hour days trigger bulb formation but that's for a plant that is maturing, one that has been growing outside for 2 months.

i wouldn't worry about using 12 vs 16 hours under the lights. you will save money (pennies) on your electric bill but if you have other plants under lights then they need the 16 hours. initially i have only onions but after a month or 5 weeks there other plants and with each passing week more varieties of vegetables are under lights. i wouldn't fool around with them especially as the onions don't have any problems with 16 hours.

I agree, I don't think the seedlings much care how long the lights are on at the early stages. They are pretty slow growing the first few months indoors and seem to be more into building their root structure and the first few true leaves. I never paid much attention to how long the lights were on, as long as they are healthy and happy by the time they go outside to get hardened off and into the ground, let nature take over and they bulb fine.