Christopher Columbus
 

A red, indeterminate paster from Darrel Jones stable seeds via Suze. A standout at the 2009 SETTFest tomato tasting I have to agree with Suze as the taste for a paste is excellent. These were picked the other day and the first group to ripen. Given the weather conditions I have had so far this year this was one of my standout varieties. The largest fruit weighs in at 300 grams. Ami

By the looks of those beauties, the only people who might be disappointed would be seed savers. Certainly look meaty!

Those look beautiful. I am curious how they compare in taste and productivity to Ludmilla's Red Plum which I know you have praised in the past?

Ginny

Ginny, and I still praise Ludmilla's Red Plum. I can't make a real comparison till I grow CC under normal weather conditions as what I had this year was far from normal. Right now CC has the edge in the taste department but as far as production and uniformity in size Ludmilla's prevails. Next year I will grow Ludmilla's and CC side by side and get a true comparison. Ami

I can give you that comparison. Christopher Columbus will win by a fraction. When conditions are difficult, temp is too hot, rain is too irregular, etc, that is when Christopher Columbus produces a crop that is appreciated. I grow it as an insurance variety. One that will produce when my Opalka's and others don't make the grade. Heidi is a determinate variety that I grow for similar reasons.

The fruits you post are far more irregular than I get. Typically it is a druplet shaped fruit. It tends toward an irregular pear like shape.

The original story was on Gardenweb back about 2003. It was posted by a man named Joseph who brought seed back from Italy and offered them on a website. He made claims of getting back to the way tomatoes are supposed to taste, and sold seed for a very high price. He sent me and 3 or 4 other folks seed to trial. I've kept it going since. I think Earl of Earl's Faux fame also has original seed.

DarJones

The original story was on Gardenweb back about 2003. It was posted by a man named Joseph who brought seed back from Italy and offered them on a website. He made claims of getting back to the way tomatoes are supposed to taste, and sold seed for a very high price. He sent me and 3 or 4 other folks seed to trial. I've kept it going since. I think Earl of Earl's Faux fame also has original seed.

*****

I was just going to ask about that b'c I remember very clearly the website he put up and the high price he was charging for seeds and all the claims he made, but I don't remember him bringing them back from Italy. Maybe he did and named it CC, but see below.

I remember him naming that variety Christopher Colombus b/c he maintained that Columbus brought those seeds to America, which of course isn't true b'c Columbus sailed the ocean blue in 1492 before the Spanish ever arrived in Mexico and subsequently distribted seeds to the Caribbean, then Spain, and from there to Italy.

I tried for an hour or so to find that website with no luck at all.

But the story isn't all that different from the variety Chuck Wyatt got a hold of, Borgo Cellano, which was claimed to be 400 plus years old, from Italy, and which I dislike re taste and you love it I know.;)

So that's what I remember b'c folks were going ga ga at something that Chris himelf brought to the US and if you Google even now you'll find some links and blogs that say Colombus was the source of tomato seeds to the Caribeean and the US, which he was not.

I mean why would he name a variety Christopher Columbus if there wasn't a tie in he was trying to prove with the name? Ja, Chris was from Genoa, not Spain as many once believed, but still.....:)

Ah well.

Columbus took tomatoes [i]from[/i] America to Spain. His crew didn't like them, and apparently the Spaniards were not overly thrilled by them. From the accounts I have read, the tomatoes that were taken to Europe were green, not red.

[quote=RinTinTin;184227]Columbus took tomatoes [I]from[/I] America to Spain. His crew didn't like them, and apparently the Spaniards were not overly thrilled by them. From the accounts I have read, the tomatoes that were taken to Europe were green, not red.[/quote]

Can you give me a link to that info? At that time, and in the Caribeean where Columbus was, the only tomatoes that could have been there were the wild currant ones that were distributed by Spanish Missionaries from Mexico as they traveled along the Gulf Coast to FL. And it's hard to see CC taking green wee fruits back with him when all that could have been there were the red currant ones.

And we can't discount bird tranmission either, since to this day it's not known how tomatoes got from the high plains of Peru and Chile to Mexico where some domestication started to occur in terms or retraction of the style and upsizing, which has been and is being studied at Ohio State Univeristy. You might remember a cover story of Scientific American with pictures on the cover and the article was written by someone I know at OSU whose work it was and is. I think her name is Dr. Esther Van de Knapp or something similar b;c I'm too lazy to go check my saved e-mails to confirm that.

The best source I know of as to tomato history is the book written by Andrew F Smith on the history, culture, etc., name origins, etc., of tomatoes.

Don't forget that on his first voyage, he made it as far as the Bahamas (San Salvador Is.). The Spaniards had not been there to start distributing them yet. Whatever he took back was what the Caribbean natives were eating at the time.

I'll have to look around and find one of my sources for the 'green' tomatoes. Maybe they took under-ripe ones knowing it would be a long, slow journey home.

Some folks believe Cortez is the first European to transfer small yellow tomatoes from Mexico to Spain after his conquest of Mexico City in 1520.

Other folks believe Christopher Columbus was the first European to take the tomato back to Spain as early as 1493.

The earliest mention of the tomato currently known in European literature appeared in a 1544 herbal by Pietro Andre Mattioli, an Italian physician and botanist. Mattioli called the tomato, pomo d'oro, meaning golden apple, and the Italian word for tomato remains pomodoro.

Whether it was Cortez or Columbus, the current thinking is that Spanish ships first distributed the tomato from the American mainland thence through the Caribbean colonies, and then to Europe and the Philipines.

Borgo Cellano is similar in origin - i.e. from Italy, heirloom variety - but the fruit are dramatically different. Borgo is a drying tomato that works well in paste and sauce. I would not slice and eat Borgo unless nothing else was available. Christopher Columbus is a juicier tomato that has a decent flavor in salads and for fresh eating.

I have about 30 CC plants growing in a tray and will ship a few of them to Florida in 2 weeks.

DarJones

[quote=Fusion_power;184237]Borgo Cellano is similar in origin - i.e. from Italy, heirloom variety - but the fruit are dramatically different. Borgo is a drying tomato that works well in paste and sauce. I would not slice and eat Borgo unless nothing else was available. Christopher Columbus is a juicier tomato that has a decent flavor in salads and for fresh eating.

I have about 30 CC plants growing in a tray and will ship a few of them to Florida in 2 weeks.

DarJones[/quote]

As I said above, I know you like Borgo Cellano, and I wasn't comparing it with CC , b'c I don't think anyopne knows the history behind CC and was just suggesting that that person may have been suggesting that it too was several hundreds of years old, in which case it probably wouldna't even have had a name.

Almost all italian heirlooms that I've ever been sent have either been named already, for the family that brought them to the US or had no name at all and had to aske the person sending me the seeds to see what they could find out.

Actually the last time this happened it was with a variety that Charlie my farmer friend was growing where I used to grow most of my tomatoes. I asked him what it was and he said it had no name, it was just a variety that the family he sold wholsale to always grew.

So I contacted them, found when it was brought to the US, found it was grown in the Sarnow area of Poland, found out the name of the family growing it here in the US was Sarnowski, originally from that area, so it became Sarnowski Polish Plum.

And Barkeater actually met the younger Sarnowski somewhere around the Canadian border, noticed his name and BINGO , yes, it was Carolyn Male who contacted the family about it he said. Gotta love it.:lol:

C:

Great story-small world!

Thanks Ami and DarJones for the info. I will be trying Ludmilla's Red Plum next year and I think I may add Borgo Cellano( I know sandhill carries both) to my list as well since drying is one of my primary uses for paste tomatoes. I also rely heavily on Heidi for both drying and sauce because it is so productive and dependable.

Maybe Christopher Columbus will be offered as seed somewhere soon. While I have admired Darrel's site, living in CA I can only look but not touch, so to speak.

Ginny

Ginny, if you would like seed, send me a message with your address. Not a general offer folks, but I will consider sending a few seed out next spring.

DarJones

Darjones, Thank you so much for the offer! This is a generous group here at tomatoville, so as it happens I have already accepted an offer of seeds from elsewhere.

Given the number of varieties you have experience with, that you consider Christopher Columbus to be a dependable tomato for your hot conditions in the way that Heidi is carries a lot of weight. I am really looking forward to trying Christopher Columbus in the dry heat of So. CA.

Ginny

Here are to links to the site that sells Christopher Columbus seeds. Not knowing if this was the same variety I grew I went ahead and ordered a Pack. Upon receiving acknowledgement that my order was in the mail I sent a reply asking the individual the history of the tomato. Here is his reply.

[QUOTE]This heirloom tomato, although it has a new world origin, came from the Calabria Region of Italy and goes back many years as a natural unhybridized or cross-bred variety. History indicates that the tomato variety was brought to Italy from Spain.
Since the heirloom comes with a close relationship to its origin it is very susceptible to deceases, particularly fungus deceases. This can be controlled with early and continued spraying with a fungisidle treatment.
I guarantee that you will not eat a better tasting sun rippened tomato.
Good growing, Joseph Venier[/QUOTE]

Here are the links to the site where you can order the seed. Ami

[url]http://connectjv.freeservers.com/[/url]

[url]http://members.fortunecity.com/connectjv/christophercolumbustomatoes/[/url]

Interesting Ami.

The two sites are really the same and neither one is the one that I remember from several years back.

The question being, do I really want to be a member of the CC Society? I don't know. Maybe I could shed my Bookclub to open up some room.

If one reads Andy Smith's book on the history of the tomato, and it's well documented, it says that the tomatoes that the Spanish took back to Europe were yellow, and after that at some point red ones appeared and were taken to Italy by Spanish missionaries.

And he also describes the spread of tomatoes from S America, by the Spanish, to the many places elsewhere, such as the Caribeean, the Phillipines and more.

I just read a really interesting book about the three most important cities that were involved in the spice trade and long ago the Spanish were the first to be heavily involved and they travelled to many at that time exotic places in the East in that endeavor, then for many reasons it transferred to the Dutch and then eventually to the English.

There will always be stories about where a certain tomato came from with little documentation. Many years ago an Englishman writing a novel contacted me and wanted to know if tomatoes at a certain date were found in a certain place in Africa. His novel was about some shipwrecked sailors and he wanted them to exist on mainly tomatoes when they got to shore.:)

Edited to add that I just realized that those two websites are by Joesph, who had first wet up a website years ago to sell the seeds, but at that time gave no history as he has in the above two websites, or the info he gave you Ami. Good news is that the seeds are now more reasonably priced.

Yes, that is Joseph's website. It is a bit updated and as noted above, his price is a bit more reasonable. Once you get past all the hype, they are very good tomatoes. I have no reservations about recommending them for most growers. Just take his hyperbole with a grain of salt, same as you would a tomato.

DarJones

I just noticed Gleckler Seed is selling Christopher Columbus tomato seed this year.

Great update Tom! It is good to see your daughters help with the garden. It brings back memories of my childhood. How did you like the Christopher Columbus paste tomatoes?


[SIZE=2][I][COLOR=Red](Admin note - in reference to [URL]http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=18849[/URL] (eg, Tom's blog updates) but copied to this thread for continuity of discussion.)
[/COLOR][/I][/SIZE]

Christopher Columbus was immune to the heat, blight and wilt we have suffered this year. Wish I had planted more, but happy I have what I have. It is a great paste tomato, good tasting (for a paste) and very few seeds. Discouragingly few. Makes it a hard one to save seeds from. You really have to cut it apart, into small pieces, to find any seeds at all. Last year my biggest was 2.5 pounds. So far this year, just over a pound. Hoping the cold holds off so I get more.

Tom

Hello Darwinslair

Where can i buy Christopher Columbus Seeds?

Is it an Heirloom? If Not i still want to try it.

I got some from Suze here. Would have to do a search for somewhere selling them I suppose.

Tom

O. K.

Thank you

[QUOTE=MrsJustice;230357]Hello Darwinslair

Where can i buy Christopher Columbus Seeds?

Is it an Heirloom? If Not i still want to try it.[/QUOTE]

Gleckler Seeds.

[url]http://www.glecklerseedmen.com/-Paste_Tomato/cat80690_529080.aspx[/url]

[QUOTE=Suze;230494][url]http://www.glecklerseedmen.com/-Paste_Tomato/cat80690_529080.aspx[/url][/QUOTE]

<laughing> they say only 6 to 8 ounces.

I dont think I have got one that small yet.

Tom

[QUOTE=darwinslair;230567]<laughing> they say only 6 to 8 ounces.

I dont think I have got one that small yet.[/QUOTE]

Me neither - and I wonder if he meant to say 16-18 oz because that would also be more in line with the "that reach up to 6" long" part of the description.

I added it to my list to buy from Gleckler seeds, but I would like to be sure they are selling "true" Christopher Columbus seeds. Does anyone know the original source of Adam's seed?

I thought there was a thread on TV with all the people who sent seeds to Adam to restart the family business, but I haven't been able to find it. I guess I am not using the correct search words.