Black Pepper Tomato info...??
 

I just received a Black Pepper tomato plant from a friend of mine in New York (I am in Michigan). She received seeds from her Pastor that his Mom grows the seeds and has for many years. Their family came over from Italy in the 70's. I cannot find any info on this variety via online searches. I asked a fellow gardener/coworker if he had heard of this and he said he knows a guy that received a plant from a guy at his church. The man was a missionary in Tanzania for quite some time. The Pastor in NY also did missionary work but the seeds were from his Mother. Just a REALLY strange coinsidence!

Can anyone help me out with info on this heirloom!?!? Thanks in advance :cute:

[quote=Annanet;171625]I just received a Black Pepper tomato plant from a friend of mine in New York (I am in Michigan). She received seeds from her Pastor that his Mom grows the seeds and has for many years. Their family came over from Italy in the 70's. I cannot find any info on this variety via online searches. I asked a fellow gardener/coworker if he had heard of this and he said he knows a guy that received a plant from a guy at his church. The man was a missionary in Tanzania for quite some time. The Pastor in NY also did missionary work but the seeds were from his Mother. Just a REALLY strange coinsidence!

Can anyone help me out with info on this heirloom!?!? Thanks in advance :cute:[/quote]

I looked in some back SSE YEarbooks and also Googled it and couldn't find anything about it.

A couple of comments.

Black Pepper may refer to the shape of the fruits being either conventional blocky bell shape or an elongated shape such as several hot peppers, or for instance the tomato varieties Howard German, Opalka and others. But I know of no so called blacks that originated in Italy as heirloom varieties.

It sounds to me like it's the result of an accidental cross between a black and an unknown other variety and has been closely held within a couple of families.

I noted that there was a connecetion, a coincidence as you put it, in that both families were missionaries and recently I was able to ID a variety for someone that was distributed by Hope Seeds, which specifically distributes seeds to missionaries and others involved with mission work. At their website they don't list what varieties they distribute so that isn't going to help but at least I thought it was interesting to mention.

So I still believe that your Black Pepper tomato is the result of an accidental cross and has received limited distribution.

B/c I'm not familiar with any heirloom blacks originating in Italy I would very much like to grow it out next year to see if it's a blocky shape or an elongated shape. If you're willing to share seeds with me please PM me and in return I can provide you with several varieties of your choice in return.

Thanks so much Carolyn! WE are still diggin on our end to see if there is anything we can find! Thanks for your effort to help:cute: I will def. PM you!!

sorry to bump this up....but, are there any pictures of this variety, and did you grow these out Carolyn?

[quote=lilhammerlane;198731]sorry to bump this up....but, are there any pictures of this variety, and did you grow these out Carolyn?[/quote]

What you see above is the extent of the thread, so no, she never PMed me back and so no, I know nothing more and nope, no seeds, no nada.

Someone at idig mentioned that Blaker Creek was offering this variety but had no blurb yet, so I cut and pasted the above to there, but it already was Google available but I didn't realize it at the time, and there's a long thread there at idig, but no more information than already here about this variety.

We'll just have to see what Baker Creek comes up with as to a variety description. And I'm going to be curious about any background info based on what's posted here at Tville.

I'd go ahead and try to contact her but anyone can buy the seeds for this variety already, from Baker Creek, even without having variety info as to basic traits beforehand. And her public profile shows that while she joined I think it was last May, she's made only two posts total, including the two above, so I don't think trying to contact her is the way to go since you can buy the seeds easily from Baker Creek, grow it out this summer and see what you get.

I hope that helps.

[quote=Annanet;171625]I just received a Black Pepper tomato plant from a friend of mine in New York (I am in Michigan). She received seeds from her Pastor that his Mom grows the seeds and has for many years. Their family came over from Italy in the 70's. I cannot find any info on this variety via online searches. I asked a fellow gardener/coworker if he had heard of this and he said he knows a guy that received a plant from a guy at his church. The man was a missionary in Tanzania for quite some time. The Pastor in NY also did missionary work but the seeds were from his Mother. Just a REALLY strange coinsidence!

Can anyone help me out with info on this heirloom!?!? Thanks in advance :cute:[/quote]

Here are mine as of today's date.

[IMG]http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z388/WillysWoodPile/DSCF5265.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z388/WillysWoodPile/DSCF5266.jpg[/IMG]
There is still no description at Baker Creek.

Terry, I just checked and Annanet has not visited Tville since last June and while she gave some background information she herself was looking for more information. Seems to me she would have posted it if she grew it last summer, but maybe not.

When you do a member search you'll see that she lists both e-mail and PM contact so if you want to go ahead and try to contact her why don't you do that, but using only the e-mail contact, if it's still viable at her end, since shemay not get a PM contact.

And of course if someone here knows more thay can post it.

Terry asked this question at idig and I found him a previous thread at idig about it and in one of the posts there I'd linked to this thread here, so here he is.

Hi Terry!:lol:

[quote=carolyn137;210577]Terry, I just checked and Annanet has not visited Tville since last June and while she gave some background information she herself was looking for more information. Seems to me she would have posted it if she grew it last summer, but maybe not.

When you do a member search you'll see that she lists both e-mail and PM contact so if you want to go ahead and try to contact her why don't you do that, but using only the e-mail contact, if it's still viable at her end, since shemay not get a PM contact.

And of course if someone here knows more thay can post it.

Terry asked this question at idig and I found him a previous thread at idig about it and in one of the posts there I'd linked to this thread here, so here he is.

Hi Terry!:lol:[/quote]

Not knowing has really got my interest peaked. I will e-mail her.

Was reading this thread, and wondering if anyone has had an opportunity to grow this one yet? Would like to get any additional info that might be available. Still couldn't find any info on this one anywhere.

Thanks....Heather

[QUOTE=hmacdona;308315]Was reading this thread, and wondering if anyone has had an opportunity to grow this one yet? Would like to get any additional info that might be available. Still couldn't find any info on this one anywhere.

Thanks....Heather[/QUOTE]

Heather, I'm not sure what else one can do based on all the posts above as to finding out more about this variety and the contacts that have already been attempted. And clearly Baker Creek said nothing more about it either.

Thanks Carolyn. Was hopeful, that since time had passed since this thread was started...there might be some hands-on experience with this one. Even knowing colour, size, growth habit etc would be helpful. Thanks again

Here it goes...
Wispy leafed plant, sets fruit well, mid season.
Fruit has dark green shoulders, is brown, has yellow skin and is elongated. The gel is brownish green, the flesh is very pale, dirty reddish - brown, quite firm, dense and dry. Low seed count, very meaty. Taste is good fresh, even better cooked, on the sweet side. Makes a wonderful sauce. I'd definitely call it a paste.

Some pics, though small, might be of use :)

[IMG]http://s7.mojalbum.com/8547167_10659454_20212586/sorte-paradiznikov/20212586.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://s7.mojalbum.com/8547167_10659454_20212584/sorte-paradiznikov/20212584.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://s7.mojalbum.com/8547167_10659454_20212585/sorte-paradiznikov/20212585.jpg[/IMG]

Hope this helps ;)

Thanks Iva. Willy had posted some pictures of it in a post above, just showing foliage but not ripe fruits.

From the way it was originally described I was kind of thinking pepper shaped, which to me means a long reddish fruit or close to it and a paste as well, since most of the long pepper shaped ones are pastes/

Did you also get your seeds from Baker Creek or from someone who got them from BC?

Thanks so much Iva. I appreciate you sharing this info.

I don't know if mine is Black Pepper, but it's similar. This was supposed to be Cherniy Ispolin, a black beefsteak, but this is what I got. I named it Snickers, because the members at my forum said that it's not Black Pepper. Iva, what do you think, since you've grown the BP.....

[QUOTE=MarinaRussian;308550]I don't know if mine is Black Pepper, but it's similar. This was supposed to be Cherniy Ispolin, a black beefsteak, but this is what I got. I named it Snickers, because the members at my forum said that it's not Black Pepper. Iva, what do you think, since you've grown the BP.....[/QUOTE]

First, I'm curious as to the members of your Forum who say what you have isn't Black Pepper. Where would they have gotten the seeds for it? As far as Iknow it was offered briefly only at Baker Creek and I bet Iva got it from there or from someone who got it from there. And Willly who posted here also got it from Baker Creek.

Marina, if you look at the first post in the thread you'll see that BP possibly originated in Italy, but was known only in the US so I have a problem seeing BP with a Russian name. I checked Tania's data base and she doesn't list the one you refer to, but I don't see that as a problem either.

I'll be sending you some links to several e-mails between Shoe, who does seed production for me, Tania, and myself.

And now using Pink Flamingo and Pood as examples, Tania was able to find I think three different vendors in Russia offering Pink Flamingo and the pictures on the seed packs were all different, for the same variety as to shape, etc.

Shoe sent pictures of what he got for Pink Flamingo, for instance, and we were able to match it up to one of the seed sources and it wasn't a pink heart, as you described it when you sent me the seeds.

It turned out to be a medium large long plum type with a prominent knob at the blossom end. I think it looks red in the photo but will confirm that with Shoe, it could be pink b'c one can't always determine color from pictures.

Pood was another one from Russia that gave me problems b'c it too didn't give what it was supposed to be. And we finally solved that one as well.

Tania suggests that there are significant problems with some seed vendors from Russia and the Ukraine who for the same variety are packing up seeds that are different as we saw with both Pink Flamingo and Pood.

So it doesn't surprise me at all that you expected a black beefsteak and didn't get a black beefsteak.

Maybe if you do some searching for the Cherniy one that you too will find different vendors selling the same variety, but with different seeds inside and you can match up what you got with an already known source that has the black beefsteak one. As Tania said in our e-mails, there are some seed vendors she trusts much more than others.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn, maybe we're talking about two different varieties. There's a Russian seed vendor, who sells a variety Kubinskiy Pertsevidniy Cherniy (Cuban Pepper-like Black) and it's a black pepper-shaped tomato.

Here's a link to his site, but it's in Russian [url]http://www.semenagrad.ru/3-1-4.html[/url]

-----------------

I e-mailed you the seed vendor's picture of Pink Flamingo, earlier this year. It showed both hearts and plums on the same plant and I asked you if that was possible, remember?

My Rozoviy Flamingos were pink, from same seeds that I sent to you. See the picture below. The tomato, with a hole in it, is a fat plum. The other two are hearts.

[QUOTE=MarinaRussian;308566]Carolyn, maybe we're talking about two different varieties. There's a Russian seed vendor, who sells a variety Kubinskiy Pertsevidniy Cherniy (Cuban Pepper-like Black) and it's a black pepper-shaped tomato.

Here's a link to his site, but it's in Russian [URL]http://www.semenagrad.ru/3-1-4.html[/URL]

-----------------

I e-mailed you the seed vendor's picture of Pink Flamingo, earlier this year. It showed both hearts and plums on the same plant and I asked you if that was possible, remember?

My Rozoviy Flamingos were pink, from same seeds that I sent to you. See the picture below. The tomato, with a hole in it, is a fat plum. The other two are hearts.[/QUOTE]

Marina, I sure do remember the picture of Pink Flamingo and I know you got mainly pink hearts, but your original seeds sent to Shoe gave something quite different. I downloaded his pictures of Pink Flamingo but I think it's best if I just forward Shoe's e-mail to me with the attachment so you can see what he got. He wasn't growing anything like that so it's not a mistake.

I'll also forward to you the e-mail from Tania, she's given me permission to do so, the three sources she found for Pink Flamingo and the one source was identical to what Shoe's picture showed.

Cuban Pepper Shaped Black? I don't know where the cuban came from but I'm wondering if it's the same or similar to Black Icicle, which is also a long pepper shaped one offered at Baker Creek and here's Tania's page for that one:

[URL]http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Black_Icicle[/URL]

I've seen the picture of it at Baker Creek and while Tania called it a plum the picture, as I recall, showed a somewhat long black kind of pepper shaped fruit.

I also checked Tania's site for the Kubinskyi one but she doesn't list it.

From the experiences I've been through with both Pink Flamingo and Pood, it looks like it's a toss up as to what one will get from different seed vendors for the same variety.

I'll forward those e-mails and attachments to you when I have time b'c right now I have a deadline to meet for submitting my listings for the 2013 SSE YEarbook, which is next Monday. I still have to inventory my seeds to see how many seeds I have left and if I can SSE lsit them or just list them for my seed offer here. And I still don't have feedback on several important varieties that Neil L, who also did some seed production for me as to what seeds he got. But he lsits hundreds so I'm not going to bother him now.

Why you got mainly pink hearts for Pink Flamingo and Shoe didn't is a bit of a mystery to me, but I do remember that one of the Russian vendors did who it as a heart, the two others did not, and what Shoe got matched completely what one of the other vendors listed for Pink Flamingo.

How I wish I could read Russian b'c when I went to that site you linked to I knew enough to look for what I call a Russian letter that looks like a greek P, lloking for it, but then I got lost.:lol:

It's still on my list to try and learn enough to be able to at least read variety names on a seed pack.:)

And if I haven't linked to this before, for you, I will now, just so you can laugh a bit:

[URL]http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=4263&highlight=tsar-kolokol[/URL]

And if I have linked to it before, I apologize.:)

Very nice pictures, Marina.

[B]Marina[/B], I also don't think yours is Black Pepper, mine were all more elongated and don't seem to be all that juicy. Yours look fatter and have many more seeds and gel it appears and the flesh is darker too. How was the taste?

[B]Carolyn[/B], I got them in a trade quite some years ago, before it was offered by Baker Creek...

[QUOTE=Iva;308817][B]Marina[/B], I also don't think yours is Black Pepper, mine were all more elongated and don't seem to be all that juicy. Yours look fatter and have many more seeds and gel it appears and the flesh is darker too. How was the taste?

[B]Carolyn[/B], I got them in a trade quite some years ago, before it was offered by Baker Creek...[/QUOTE]

Iva, I just went back up and reread the initial post and I can't seem to understand how seeds for this variety got distributed elsewhere across the pond, I'm assuming they wouldn't have been distriibuted from Italy with an English name, ahem, but then how did they get to Baker Creek and you had it before Baker Creek even listed it, and they didn't list it for long, presumably b'c they couldn't find any background either.

If I have a list of things to worry about, and I do, I can assure you that thinking about this variety is NOT near the top of the list right now.:lol:

Thanks, Delltraveller!


Iva, the taste wasn't as good as other black varieties I've tried, and not as juicy, but not dry. They were sweetish and had very thick skin. Very productive!!! I'd grow it again, just for that.

[QUOTE=MarinaRussian;308835]Iva, the taste wasn't as good as other black varieties I've tried, and not as juicy, but not dry. They were sweetish and had very thick skin. Very productive!!! I'd grow it again, just for that.[/QUOTE]
I recall Iva posted (probably on another forum), that she originally got the seeds from Hristo in a trade. I'm glad to see renewed activity on this old thread, because thanks to that we may finally find out more about Black Pepper

Yes, Gunnar, That's it! I got them from Hristo under a foreign name that translates to Black Pepper. This is from my memory, so please don't mind the spelling as I'm sure it is not correct.
Kubinsky Chornyi Peretz. Something like that. It does not translate to Cuban Black Pepper but Black Pepper from Kub### (a town in Poland??). After further discussion with people involved, we all agreed that it was probably Black Pepper...

[QUOTE=Iva;309222]Kubinsky Chornyi Peretz. Something like that. It does not translate to Cuban Black Pepper but Black Pepper from Kub### (a town in Poland??). After further discussion with people involved, we all agreed that it was probably Black Pepper...[/QUOTE]Maybe Kubinsky Chornyi Peretz (Кубинск...) does translate to Cuban Black Pepper after all. That has been in part verified by Wikipedia and by Marina here. Being that she is Russian and knows the language perfectly, she's the ultimate authority at least in linguistic questions.

The only way to find out, if these are all the same or not, is to grow the Black Pepper, Kubinskiy Pertsevidniy and what I have as "Snickers", and compare them.

I don't have anything to add to the history or the origin part.

[QUOTE=MarinaRussian;309239]The only way to find out, if these are all the same or not, is to grow the Black Pepper, Kubinskiy Pertsevidniy and what I have as "Snickers", and compare them.

I don't have anything to add to the history or the origin part.[/QUOTE]

I agree Marina, all in the same season.

Well I'm going to try to look inot this Marina since I love a good history background.;)

Iva, I recognized the name Hristo, Googled it and found him at Bishop's site and he's from Bulgaria. Could you contact him and ask where he got the seeds from?

Willy grew it, seeds from Baker Creek but they never kept offering it, probably b/c they couldn't get a good background either and he grew it in Feb of 2011.

Then we've got what Annanet posted originally and about the same time she posted the same at GW with no answers other than heather recently asking about it.

So here's what Annanet said:

I just received a Black Pepper tomato plant from a friend of mine in New York (I am in Michigan). She received seeds from her Pastor that his Mom grows the seeds and has for many years. Their family came over from Italy in the 70's. I cannot find any info on this variety via online searches. I asked a fellow gardener/coworker if he had heard of this and he said he knows a guy that received a plant from a guy at his church. The man was a missionary in Tanzania for quite some time. The Pastor in NY also did missionary work but the seeds were from his Mother. Just a REALLY strange coinsidence!



So she got seeds from someone in NY whose family brought them over from Italy in the 70's. And she got them named as Black Pepper Tomato, in English. I doubt she would have renamed them from Italian or some other language.

So how do we get from Italy to Bulgaria, possibly Hristo, and also to Russia with a Russian name? And who sent the seeds to Baker Creek where they also listed it as Black Pepper Tomato, in English. And if the Russian name does translate out to Cuba, where does that play a role?


Any ideas about the above? Maybe wait until Iva can contact Hristo?



Carolyn

Who should we ask to do the growouts?

I'm a rookie and I'm not good at things like growth habit, skin colors, leaf shapes, etc.

The missing piece in this puzzle are Annanet's seeds. Maybe she has the real Black Pepper from Italy, and we have a whole different kind of "pepper".

Ok, I have a headache now :dizzy:

I have 5 seeds left of the Baker Creek Black Pepper 2010 seed. I will grow them this spring (2013). I will look to see if I have pictures from my 2011 growout.

I received around 16 seeds of Black Pepper in Heather's seed swap, which are labelled Baker Creek 2012.
I have a lot of new varieties to try :?:and unless I can build a hoophouse or two, not enough space to grow them all in one year. So I'm not sure if I'll be growing this one in 2013, unless I gamble on a couple of plants outdoors.
I would be happy to send a half dozen seeds to Marina, for a side-by-side comparison with the 'Snickers' 'Cuban' 'Icicle' or similar 'Black Pepper' like tomatoes if you want to do it.
I would like to hear from anyone who has grown it, whether the Baker Creek 'Black Pepper' was early or late, tolerant of/resistant to cold or heat or disease, productive, tasty.