Root Knot Nematodes (RKN)
 

Root Knot Nematodes (RKN)

I started a thread in the General Discussion section here called, "When To Pull Them" [URL]http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=41682[/URL] The discussion soon turned to RKN. I want to start this thread in the correct section with the title not being misleading.

I want to share pictures along the way as well as everything I learn on how to combat these nuisances. I hope to read info and see pictures that you all share as well. If you see something I'm doing wrong - let me know.

I'll start with a picture that shows what RKN does to roots of many vegetables and fruit. The first picture is a tomato plant's roots heavily infected with RKN.

The second and third pictures are of a 45'x45' garden being solarized as of today.

Salt I read that asparagus was a good companion plant for tomatoes and it may repel nematodes.

Worth

That will make a lot of people out here happy Worth. We all love asparagus.

I feel for you Salt... I really do. You and your Mrs. have worked very hard over the past year to build some amazing gardens and now you have to deal with this........ I read your other thread and am a bit speechless. I can not offer any advise because it is something that I have never dealt with but I sure do wish you the best of luck and hope that you find a way to combat this.

You might want to do some searching here since the topic of RKN's has been a very active topic.

[url]http://www.tomatoville.com/search.php?searchid=2405457[/url]

Go back quite a bit and you'll find suggestions for ebon rye cover crop,special marigolds,lobster shells,solar sterilization and much more along with what didn't work for almost everyone..

Carolyn

[QUOTE=MissS;578301]I feel for you Salt... I really do. You and your Mrs. have worked very hard over the past year to build some amazing gardens and now you have to deal with this........ I read your other thread and am a bit speechless. I can not offer any advise because it is something that I have never dealt with but I sure do wish you the best of luck and hope that you find a way to combat this.[/QUOTE]

Patti, at first, it was irritating and upsetting to find out we have this RKN problem in our main garden. At the same time, I was glad to find out what is going on.

Now, I see the RKN problem as something different. I'm actually excited to battle these microscopic nuisances. I started gardening to learn and to keep myself busy. The RKN will be a busy learning experience.

I've been looking at other areas to grow in and planted in one of the areas. There are RKN in that area as well. Winter Squash and Melons wilt during direct sun and rebound overnight. They are producing though.

We have large raised beds that show no signs of RKN. They're around 90' away from the main garden. We will plant tomatoes in the raised beds. Use tools in those beds that do not get used anywhere else.

I fought them for over 35 years with varying degrees of success. Building up the organic content, reducing the sandiness of the soil, and using a good dense mulch all helped. The most effective thing I ever did was till in a few pickup loads of fresh horse manure. Now I use only grafted plants with rootstock that is very resistant to RKN.

Bill

I am going to have to learn how to graft plants.

There are some varieties that did grow and produce very well in the garden that has RKN in it. When I planted the 5 rows of 19 plants each - I planted as the transplants became big enough to plant out. This meant that the varieties that I planted more of one of - were planted in different rows or areas in the garden. (Instead of being planted beside each other.)

The varieties that did well were:

Accidental Crosses - I have no idea on what F (Filial) generation.
A Grappoli Corbarino
A Grappoli D'Inverno
Chocolate Cherry
Indigo Blue Berries
Indigo Cherry Drops
Japanese Pink Cherry
Kiss The Sky
Medovaya Kaplya
MegaTrusses - not sure on the spelling or if it is 2 words?
Peacevine
Punta Banda
Rebel Yell
Shedra Sliva Tarasenka
Sweetie
WOW

There were many varieties that had no RKN resistance, but the one variety that really surprised me that didn't make it was Big Beef VFFNTA.

[QUOTE=AlittleSalt;578509]I am going to have to learn how to graft plants.

There are some varieties that did grow and produce very well in the garden that has RKN in it. When I planted the 5 rows of 19 plants each - I planted as the transplants became big enough to plant out. This meant that the varieties that I planted more of one of - were planted in different rows or areas in the garden. (Instead of being planted beside each other.)

The varieties that did well were:

Accidental Crosses - I have no idea on what F (Filial) generation.
A Grappoli Corbarino
A Grappoli D'Inverno
Chocolate Cherry
Indigo Blue Berries
Indigo Cherry Drops
Japanese Pink Cherry
Kiss The Sky
Medovaya Kaplya
MegaTrusses - not sure on the spelling or if it is 2 words?
Peacevine
Punta Banda
Rebel Yell
Shedra Sliva Tarasenka
Sweetie
WOW

There were many varieties that had no RKN resistance, but the one variety that really surprised me that didn't make it was Big Beef VFFNTA.[/QUOTE]

I think with future plantings you will find that most of these are not resistant either if RKN is bad enough. My guess is most of these just happened to be planted where the nematodes where not as prevalent. I used to experience the same thing but eventually found that most varieties would succumb to RKN if planted in the wrong spot. I must say I am surprised by Big Beef getting nematodes because it was rarely affected at all except mildly when planted in the worse spots.

Bill

Here is another thought. We can all read about things that might work or did not work against RKN, but I've never read that this "whatever" kills them. I'm not sure that killing RKN is needed by a chemical. I'm wondering more about starvation?

If you plant things in a garden infected with RKN that RKN does not like - would they eventually starve? You could plant Elbon Cereal Rye in the winter along with Mustard Greens (Already have the seeds) and then in spring, plant varieties of vegetables that RKN does not like.

My idea is to keep planting things that RKN is repulsed to. I have already grown a lot of tomato varieties - it's time to grow some different things.

Looks like Asparagus gets a big thumbs up. What other veges repulse RKN is my next question?

[QUOTE=AlittleSalt;579266]Here is another thought. We can all read about things that might work or did not work against RKN, but I've never read that this "whatever" kills them. I'm not sure that killing RKN is needed by a chemical. I'm wondering more about starvation?

If you plant things in a garden infected with RKN that RKN does not like - would they eventually starve? You could plant Elbon Cereal Rye in the winter along with Mustard Greens (Already have the seeds) and then in spring, plant varieties of vegetables that RKN does not like.

My idea is to keep planting things that RKN is repulsed to. I have already grown a lot of tomato varieties - it's time to grow some different things.

Looks like Asparagus gets a big thumbs up. What other veges repulse RKN is my next question?[/QUOTE]

Hot Peppers; but for how long I don't know. I did notice over the years that when planting tomatoes after hot peppers that my RKN problems were less that year than usual in those spots.

Bill

I do try to keep resistant roots of some sort growing most of the time. I have tried blackeye peas. 1991 Florida list here....
[URL="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi8uPCpmIDOAhVJNSYKHWF2AzcQFgg1MAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freshfromflorida.com%2Fcontent%2Fdownload%2F10977%2F142153%2Fnem189.pdf&usg=AFQjCNE7b5kDNr_JKzrzWrGcU-ujj1gCIA&bvm=bv.127521224,d.cWw"]https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi8uPCpmIDOAhVJNSYKHWF2AzcQFgg1MAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.freshfromflorida.com%2Fcontent%2Fdownload%2F10977%2F142153%2Fnem189.pdf&usg=AFQjCNE7b5kDNr_JKzrzWrGcU-ujj1gCIA&bvm=bv.127521224,d.cWw[/URL]

Here are a couple of links I just read. A PM brought my attention to Mexican Marigolds.

[URL]https://www.strictlymedicinalseeds.com/product.asp?specific=573[/URL]

[URL]http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ng045[/URL]

I pulled a Porter tomato plant yesterday Aug 22, 2016. It was a plant I started back in January from seed. It produced [U]very[/U] well and then started showing the tell-tale signs of RKN a month ago. Branches started dying off as the high temperatures reached 100 degrees. I knew it wasn't right because I have over-summered Porter the past couple of years and they didn't lose branches. I cut the plant way back with only a couple healthy vines growing and then it rained with high temps in lower 80s for over a week. The Porter plant looked worse. I pulled it, and as I expected - RKN.

That Porter tomato plant is in one raised bed. Today, our younger child 'adashofpepper' and I pulled a Pruden's Purple that has been 18" for around 45 days. It was 3' away from a 4.5' tall flowering Pruden's purple growing beside it. Both planted the same day, etc. When I pulled it up - it had a tiny RKN ridden root system. We both said RKN at the same time. That Pruden's Purple was growing in our other raised bed.

Both plants proved a point - the RKN comes from our native sandy loam. That is what adashofpepper and I filled the new raised beds with. So, no, I did not introduce RKN to our gardens by buying and planting tomato and pepper transplants. Those two raised beds have never seen a store bought transplant.

I'm not going to solarize either raised beds as they both have perfectly healthy growing tomato plants in them. Big Beef, Pruden's Purple, Sungold, Rebel Yell, Early Girl, Porter - along with a lot of very good looking pepper plants. It is important to me to see those healthy plants have a chance to keep on growing and producing.

I am toying with the idea of planting both Elbon cereal rye and Mustard Greens in these two raised beds to overwinter. The idea is to keep them mowed on the highest setting of our Sears push mower, and eventually turning them under in February. Tomato transplants will go in sometime in March of next year. It takes green manure about a month to decompose.

As far as to where to plant the Mustard Greens to eat - there are 4 other raised beds that in the right growing conditions/temperatures would produce enough greens to feed a lot of people. But that is if it doesn't hard freeze - we are due for a cold winter - so who knows.

I want to add shredded dried oak leaves when we till or turn in the cereal rye. I've read countless books and even series of books on organic growing. It seems that RKN doesn't like organic growing. So many of those books call for composting at way higher rates of brown ingredients to green ones. Our gardens are going to see whatever gets thrown in it percentages, but there are a lot of oak leaves out here.

My idea is to use everything I've read to organically fix the problem - along with solarizing. If that doesn't work - next year we'll use duct tape. :)

Have you considered "biodrill" radishes?

Yes, I have researched using radishes as a cover crop. I can see a lot of benefits in growing them in many gardens. However, our soil is loose and friable. You simply cannot make it clump. You sink as you walk through the garden - its spongy. Also radishes attract harlequin bugs here and make it smell almost toxic.

[QUOTE=b54red;578387]Now I use only grafted plants with rootstock that is very resistant to RKN.

Bill[/QUOTE]

Putting energy here sounds like a logical solution, as well as implementation of other.

Also, a dumb question, can these things travel through a fabric pouch?

Bill, I don't know if they could or not? They are microscopic. I do know that they can be splashed up into growing containers.

Today after physically pushing myself way beyond what I can do in a week. I stopped to smell the roses - look at that plants still growing. RKN has taken over all but 3 tomato plants. I keep pushing this nerve disease and it's trying to kick my AZZ. I'm not going to let it - nor am I going to let RKN do it to my gardens either.

I wonder if RKN can live through a mixture of 1 gallon bleach to 4 gallons water? If so, can RKN live through a half gallon Muriatic acid to four gallons water?

I am so tired of watching promising plants dying to a microscopic organism. I know the easiest and probably most acceptable answer is to give up. That's just not who I am. I am going to grow tomatoes in-ground.

[QUOTE=AlittleSalt;589160]Today after physically pushing myself way beyond what I can do in a week. I stopped to smell the roses - look at that plants still growing. RKN has taken over all but 3 tomato plants. I keep pushing this nerve disease and it's trying to kick my AZZ. I'm not going to let it - nor am I going to let RKN do it to my gardens either.

I wonder if RKN can live through a mixture of 1 gallon bleach to 4 gallons water? If so, can RKN live through a half gallon Muriatic acid to four gallons water?

I am so tired of watching promising plants dying to a microscopic organism. I know the easiest and probably most acceptable answer is to give up. That's just not who I am. I am going to grow tomatoes in-ground.[/QUOTE]

I know your frustrations well; but don't give in a treat everything with bleach or acid. You will kill off all your good bacteria and the nematodes can move back in within a year even if the treatment works great. The reason I went to grafting was because fighting nematodes and fusarium wilt had become too much for me due to health problems and grafting was the least taxing way to fight back. I had no idea it would work as well as it has making my later gardening years so much easier both physically and mentally. It does take a bit of a learning curve but if you follow my detailed instructions you can eliminate most of the problems that arise in grafting. I do not have 100% success with each grafting experience but I have gotten my success rate up high enough that cost is not prohibitive nor is the work involved. The biggest problem is getting everything started early enough to have plants ready in time for the earliest planting dates here. Grafting can add up to a month to the process of getting plants started but usually only two to three weeks depending upon how well I do with the grafting. I take longer than most descriptions of grafting but get a much higher success rate due to the added steps and the longer hardening off process. This means starting in early November getting some of the things you will need ordered so you can start your seed in December and be ready to start grafting in January and early February. The slow growth of seedlings when it is too cold and the light is not good enough can delay getting them to the size needed to start grafting. Even if you are delayed and don't get your plants started and grafted early enough for the first planting date you will greatly benefit from the healthier plants that can take the heat so much better with healthy roots.

If you have any questions let me know and I'll be happy to answer them.

Bill

A 1 to 4 ratio of muriatic acid to water is still powerful stuff.
Talk about scorched earth it would make the ground foam like crazy.

Worth

Thank you Bill. I will be asking you questions along the way. The extra time grafting is a welcome thing for me.

This morning, it hurt to make coffee, and now that it is ready...here coffee - it's not paying attention. I guess I have to get up and pour it myself.

[QUOTE=Worth1;589184]A 1 to 4 ratio of muriatic acid to water is still powerful stuff.
Talk about scorched earth it would make the ground foam like crazy.

Worth[/QUOTE]

Yes it does Worth. It actually bubbles on the ground green, red, purple, yellow. At that ratio, it removes hardened mortar from brick and stone. It will let you know all about any cuts or scratches you have.

[QUOTE=AlittleSalt;589186]Yes it does Worth. It actually bubbles on the ground green, red, purple, yellow. At that ratio, it removes hardened mortar from brick and stone. It will let you know all about any cuts or scratches you have.[/QUOTE]

I know what you used it for and the reason I didn't go into the safety of it.
No good mason would be without their trusty gallon of acid.
I keep it on hand all the time.
Worth

[QUOTE=AlittleSalt;589185] . . . This morning, it hurt to make coffee, and now that it is ready...here coffee - it's not paying attention. I guess I have to get up and pour it myself.[/QUOTE]

ROFL (and empathy . . . annoying how stubborn these allegedly inanimate things can be when movement would be helpful, and how actively they can leap about when you are trying to do something that really requires six hands and you need them to stay still) :twisted:

Regarding the vile RKNs, grafting to RKN resistant rootstock sound great but two other things . . . have you considered introducing some beneficial nematodes and letting them combat their destructive kinsfolk? and regarding the "they're in the local soil because these beds were filled only with native soil" . . . that may be true, but might the same tools have been used at some time to work the main in ground garden and the beds . . . so there might have been little hitchhikers that had been originally introduced into the main garden bed by outside plants?

(I'm writing this while drinking vodka tonight - otherwise the nerve pain is too much to type.) The pain is still there - I just don't feel it as much. Hopefully I don't leave details out as I reply.

JLJ,

I have given a lot of thought and research to trying the beneficial nematodes. There are many benefits to the good nematodes - they actually hunt for grub worms and cutworms as well as RKN. I haven't researched as much as needed to find out if the Elbon Cereal Rye 'ECR" will kill the good nematodes too. I plan on planting 5 pounds of ECR this fall. It works as a trap crop according to several sites - the RKN makes its way into the root and dies. ECR is also thought of as a biofumagant when turned under. [URL]https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=biofumigant+Elbon+Cereal+Rye[/URL]

Mustard greens are a lot alike [URL]https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=biofumigant+mustard[/URL] just not as winter hardy.

I agree with you and Bill, grafting wouldn't be done if it wasn't needed, so it's time for me to learn. One thing I did not mention is that of the three tomato plants that seem unaffected by RKN - two are Big Beef VFFNTA - It looks like I need to buy some seeds - most likely from [URL]http://www.tomatogrowers.com/BIG-BEEF-VFFNTA-HYBRID/productinfo/3310/[/URL] There are a few others I want to try from there. I cannot afford rootstock, so growing rootstock from seed is going to have to suffice. As I said to my wife, I'll be gardening year-round which is exactly what I need.

As far as using contaminated tools, yeah, I did. I have a favorite rake that I use for everything. I've never gotten a blister from it and it is lightweight - yet durable for years.

I wish I could have replied sooner.

Sorry the pain is causing so much difficulty -- glad you have some 'medicine' that helps. ;)

My thought about contamination via tools was just that it might bear on whether your soil is natively contaminated or whether an imported RKN problem had been spread, which might impact what past and future steps might be necessary and/or work best to deal with them. You do seem to have several good ideas in mind -- hope they get rid of the nematodes -- at least the wicked ones -- permanently.

It's interesting to read about your progress. I haven't had RKN -- or at least haven't seen evidence of them -- but with gardens if it isn't one thing it's six others . . . so they may turn up any season, I suppose. :(

I went out this morning to look at the solarized garden. It's time to take the plastic up. It has been rained on so many times. I don't know if the solarization process did any good or not? It rained an inch and 4/10 yesterday. The 10 day forecast is for highs in the upper 80s and lower 90s with several chances of rain. The plastic is starting to deteriorate. I want to get it up in as big of pieces as I can. I took a couple pictures.

It doesn't take long to break down for sure in direct sunlight.:lol:
Worth

I find that gin which was first introduced as a medicine to be far superior for my arthritis; but the relief is temporary but much appreciated at the time.:D

Bill