Can you root determinates?
 

Or rather will they make fruit if I do root some. I have some Fireworks that have done so well that I would like to attempt fall tomatoes and don't have any seeds left.

[QUOTE=frankcar1965;484638]Or rather will they make fruit if I do root some. I have some Fireworks that have done so well that I would like to attempt fall tomatoes and don't have any seeds left.[/QUOTE]


I'm pretty sure you can root determinate suckers.I never have, but have planted some indeterminate suckers.Hopefully someone will confirm:)

Thats a good question. Curious myself. Someone with more knowledge on the subject should enlighten us soon, me thinks.

Go For Broke. If you cain't(and I'm sure you can or we would have already heard you cain't) you are out nothing but time.

It should be quicker growing by rooting than from seeds, IMO.
Plus, you can be 100% that you will get the exact same variety, no chance of cross.

Gardeneer

I had a Marglobe that rooted itself on a branch that was laying on the ground. It had a nice,big second flush of tomatoes. It didn't have much time,since I was in AZ, where the tomato season is quite short but it did produce a surprising number of fruit,even with heat coming on.

yes:yes:

When rooting "suckers" (side shoots) from fully determinate varieties, the side shoot may be advanced enough, or from a plant advanced enough, to have received the signal to terminate, and thus the rooted side shoot may form its terminal flowers before forming its own side shoots to grow additional fruit.

Ok then, so I should take them from lower down I guess- larger and thus more advanced. Is that correct?

I've been doing a lot of counting leaves/internodes between clusters on determinate and semi-determinate plants this year. What seems to be common, is that the plant will do a "termination sequence" ie cluster - leaf - cluster cluster- leaf, and after that it will start again with either (a) the number of leaves before the first cluster on the main stem, or (b) the number of leaves before the first cluster on the side shoots, and then the termination sequence is repeated and the shoot terminates.
So I also noticed on a couple of plants that there are a lot of adventitious roots forming, right around the place where the new (a) or (b) series begins. As if the plant was shooting off another 'plant' of itself, to root down into the ground.
So if I wanted to root a shoot from a determinate plant, I would count the leaves between the clusters, and I'd make my cut at the bottom of a series of three leaves or more without any clusters between em.
If there's a cluster below and you want those fruit, leave one leaf just above the cluster and make your cut.

Yes. Go for it, try to get a sucker that is long enough to have enough stem to grow roots, but no visible blossoms/buds yet.

I generally find it to be a waste of time. In the GH we clone 100s of indeterminates for sales but the success rate with determinates is very low and even if the cutting roots its odds of production are slim. The timing for taking the cutting and its age relative to the age of the mother plant are so crucial that you start out with 2 strikes against you. So for all practical purposes I tell folks not to waste time doing it.

[QUOTE]Ok then, so I should take them from lower down I guess- larger and thus more advanced. Is that correct?[/QUOTE]

So if you want to try it then no, you want a very young cutting and they will be nearer the top of the plant. And while you want it long enough to have a couple of inches of bare stem to root you do not want "larger and more advanced". The lower branches will already have a reduced circulatory system and may have already triggered bloom on themselves even if you can't see it yet. If that is the case then it may root but it won't fruit.

Dave

Uh-oh, my bad Fireworks is indeterminate which is good since there seems to be differing ideas- one says more advanced, one says younger. I have some determinates so I think experimentation is in order. Now if I can keep the mites under control through the summer. I'm tired of spraying.

[QUOTE]one says more advanced, one says younger.[/QUOTE]

Actually I didn't see anyone recommend a lower down, more advanced cutting so I was wondering where you got that info. In fact travis also advised against it above. We both said basically the same thing.

[QUOTE]the side shoot may be advanced enough, or from a plant advanced enough, to have received the signal to terminate, and thus the rooted side shoot may form its terminal flowers before forming its own side shoots to grow additional fruit.[/QUOTE]

The lower down, more advanced limbs may have already triggered terminal blooms, as he said and I agreed and pointed out that you may not be able to see them yet. So you would get no more lateral branches from that cutting and no more fruit.

dave

I really thought he said just the opposite, sorry Travis- it was a rather rambling post to
me.

Sorry about that ...

[QUOTE=travis;484774]When rooting "suckers" (side shoots) from a fully determinate variety, the side shoot may be advanced enough, or from a plant advanced enough, to have received the signal to terminate, and thus the rooted side shoot may form its terminal flowers before forming its own side shoots to grow additional fruit.[/QUOTE] REPRISED:

If one roots a side shoot from fully determinate varieties, one should take care not to root a side shoot that is advanced to the stage at which the plant has signaled the side shoot to form its terminal efflorescence.

If the side shoot one roots already is programmed to form its terminal efflorescence, the clone thus is past the stage at which it will produce sufficient side shoots of its own from which to yield a harvest of fruit similar in quantitative ability to the original plant from which the clone was taken.

The signal from the original plant to a side shoot to form its terminal efflorescence may occur prior to the casual observer's ability to detect such a signal. So, one may wish to clone the youngest side shoots, or instead clone a newly emerged leaf.

Dang, here I was hoping the lower branch I rooted from my Tycoon (which had to be cut off due to storm damage around Memorial Day) was going to give me some more fruit. It's definitely rooted, but I guess I'm just growing pretty tomato foliage now, huh?

[QUOTE=TexasTycoon;485143]Dang, here I was hoping the lower branch I rooted from my Tycoon (which had to be cut off due to storm damage around Memorial Day) was going to give me some more fruit. It's definitely rooted, but I guess I'm just growing pretty tomato foliage now, huh?[/QUOTE]Don't be surprised if it actually makes a perfectly fine plant.;)

[QUOTE]Dang, here I was hoping the lower branch I rooted from my Tycoon (which had to be cut off due to storm damage around Memorial Day) was going to give me some more fruit. It's definitely rooted, but I guess I'm just growing pretty tomato foliage now, huh?[/QUOTE]

Give it a chance. You might luck out. So a month back right? Any signs of secondary branches or blooms yet? After 30 days there should be some indication.

Dave

[QUOTE=travis;485119]Sorry about that ...

REPRISED:

If one roots a side shoot from fully determinate varieties, one should take care not to root a side shoot that is advanced to the stage at which the plant has signaled the side shoot to form its terminal efflorescence.

If the side shoot one roots already is programmed to form its terminal efflorescence, the clone thus is past the stage at which it will produce sufficient side shoots of its own from which to yield a harvest of fruit similar in quantitative ability to the original plant from which the clone was taken.

The signal from the original plant to a side shoot to form its terminal efflorescence may occur prior to the casual observer's ability to detect such a signal. So, one may wish to clone the youngest side shoots, or instead clone a newly emerged leaf.[/QUOTE]

haha, i think that should clarify it for him Travis.. Stop rambling, would ya?! :twisted:

[QUOTE=digsdirt;485253]Give it a chance. You might luck out. So a month back right? Any signs of secondary branches or blooms yet? After 30 days there should be some indication.

Dave[/QUOTE]

I'm seeing some new growth, but no signs of blossoms yet. Just about all of the old leaves died, but they were pretty battered from the storms. New growth is dark green and healthy. Moved it closer to the sunlight this week (I garden on an apartment patio, and had this one in the corner closer to the apartment so it wouldn't dry out while rooting), so perhaps we'll see some blossoms soon. Moving it to a bigger pot next week (next paycheck haha, whoever thinks gardening is a way to save money is kidding themselves) so that should do some good as well. :)

[QUOTE=Redbaron;485202]Don't be surprised if it actually makes a perfectly fine plant.;)[/QUOTE]

I've got my fingers crossed! :peace: