Lets talk plum/paste tomatoes and sauce
 

Ok folks,

I aks this question every year around this time. what is your favorite plum/paste tomato for sauce. Looking for recommendations for next year. My experiance thus far has not been good.

I grew opalka a few years ago and the tomato was alright but production was horrible and the plants always looked like they were one day away from dying. _ I can't live like that.

This year a grew viva italia this primarily based on the description. The sauce is great but the tomato taste like cardboard. This is common for a paste.

Anyone have a good experiance with a paste tomato that makes great sauce and also tastes decent?-

Where with all

I'm growing three excellent Russian paste type tomato varieties with pepper-like elongated shape. There are:

1. Moskovskiy Delikates (Moscow Delicacy or Moscow Delicious)
Red elongated fruits, high production, good flavor for a non-beefsteak tomato, vigorous indeterminate habit

2. Frantsuzskiy Grozdevoy (French Clusters)
Red elongated fruits, high production, not so vigorous and high as the previous variety, good flavor for a non-beefsteak tomato. This non-commercial OP variety has been developed recently for Siberian indoor growing conditions.

3. Zolotaya Rybka (Gold Fish)
Golden-orange elongated fruites, very high production on a vigorous plant, not so mild flavor for an orange fruited variety

Photoes will be published here later today ;)

P.S. But you can make a good sauce from any meaty tomato with rather good flavor, not only plum/paste type :!:

[quote=Andrey_BY;70381]P.S. But you can make a good sauce from any meaty tomato with rather good flavor, not only plum/paste type :!:[/quote]

Agreed.

As to specific paster (or canning or drying) types, Sarnowski Polish Plum is a new favorite for me in terms of taste, extreme productivity, and meaty texture.

Here's some of my better paste/sauce types that were good the last few years:

Joe's Plum:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/Joe'sPlum.jpg[/IMG]


Wagner's Italian:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/Wagner'sItalian.jpg[/IMG]


Rosalie's Paste:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/Rosalie's.jpg[/IMG]


Uncle Steve's:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/UncleSteve's.jpg[/IMG]


Speckled Roman:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/SpeckledRoman.jpg[/IMG]


Kalman's Hungarian Pink:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/img/640Kalman'sHungarianPink.jpg[/IMG]



Drier types mostly for sauce or salsa:

Blocky Marzano:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/BlockyMarzano.jpg[/IMG]


Horvath:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/Horvath.jpg[/IMG]


In-betweens, not dry, good for sauce, salsa, canning, etc, very heavy production:

Ernie's Plump:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/Ernie'sPlump.jpg[/IMG]


Rio Grande:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/img/480RioGrande0.jpg[/IMG]


Yugoslavian:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/Yugoslavian.jpg[/IMG]


Speckled Roman, Joe's Plum, Kalman's, Wagner's & Yugoslavian all tasted very good to great fresh too. Joe's, Wagner's & Yugo also had that wonderful aroma when cut open/sliced. Kalman's, Wagner's & Yugoslavian are pinks, a little less common since many paste types are red.

Also, try heart types--they are very solid with not many seeds.

Hope this helps.

Mark

Beautiful pictures Mark.

But I strongly agree with both Andrey and Suze that any great tasting meaty tomato variety makes excellent paste. Just cook down the sauce a bit more to the desired consistency.

I could list some paste varieties here, and will just quickly mention Heidi and Martino's Roma, you already have tried Opalka which I think is pretty good, and I also think that the Sarnowski Polish Plum that Suze mentioned is a great one. For the latter, just picture a shorter fatter Opalka and fruits for me were often doubles and sometimes triples.

The Sarnowski family, from whom I got the seeds, wanted to call it a plum, but I don't see it that way at all.

Seeds for Sarnowski Polish Plum ( not available in 2007) are available at Sandhill. Glenn says 4-6 oz but I get fruits much larger than that.

The reasons I don't like paste tomatoes, as a group, are b'c many are very susceptible to Early Blight ( A. solani) as well as BER, and most importantly to me, as a group do not have such great tastes. Just my opinion.

Mark tell me more!!!

How does Speckeled roman and Joe's plum taste? Sweet, tangy, acidic, tomatoey. can you describe the taste as a suace and eaten raw? How is the production?

How does uncle steves and rio grande taste?

Andrey and Suze, I agree any good meaty tomato can be cooked down to a sauce but making suace out of a tomato with lots of seeds and too juicy is a royal pain. Seeds in sauce give an off flavor. and deseeding is hard in some tomatoes because of all the pockets.

I would call Speckled Roman sweet and Joe's Plum more tangy & complex, like a good slicer/beefsteak tastes. Uncle Steve's I don't remember, but that pic, the pile is maybe 6-8" high on that plate, which is 9 inches diameter.

I hate giving taste descriptions because everybody has different taste perceptions but I use smell as a very important factor in taste.... the ones I talked about aroma "reek" great taste.

Rio Grande is a determinate that usually topples those 3-ring cages--you need a good stake too. You'll get about 4 quarts per plant.

I can't describe the taste cooked because when I make sauce, I use all the varieties mixed in... but I heard from others the Ernie's Plump makes one of the richest sauces.

And here's Sarnowski Polish Plum:

[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/SarnowskiPolishPlum.jpg[/IMG]


...and Wuhib:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/Wuhib.jpg[/IMG]


...and Heidi:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/Heidi.jpg[/IMG]


For an orange sauce try these:

Roughwood Golden Plum (Yellow Brandywine x San Marzano):
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/RoughwoodGoldenPlum.jpg[/IMG]


...and Orange Banana: "INDETERMINATE. Orange Banana was the clear winner of an autumn paste taste at the Shipmans in Maine. Sweet flavor of Sungold but with more depth, makes a great sauce by itself, or adds a fruity complexity to other sauces. Orange fruits 3-4" long avg 4-5 oz."
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/img/640OrangeBanana.jpg[/IMG]


Throw in some Herman's Yellow, a great tasting heart with few seeds:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/Herman'sYellow.jpg[/IMG]


...or brighten it up a bit with Power's Heirloom:
[IMG]http://mysite.verizon.net/~korney19/img/640Power'sHeirloom.jpg[/IMG]

where-with-all, I put up about 100 quarts of sauce the last 2 seasons using a hand-crank strainer that eliminates seeds. I grew Opalka last year which was very productive but also very late. The point though is that there are big tomatoes I strain that give just as thick a sauce as any plum tomato, and also have very few seeds. Because of this, I don't bother with plums because they really aren't bred for fresh taste, and I want both.

Here is a list of what I remember as great big tomatoes for sauce:

Supersonic - most productive of all.
Pik Red
Campbells 1327
Wes
Kosovo
Anna Russian
Big Zac
Ramapo
German Red Strawberry- guessing here as I just cut my 1st.

From this list, note that Hearts and the Harris hybrids are prominent.

barkeater,

good point. I forgot to mention that I have been canning whole tomatoes. I usually deseed when I make the sauce by hand but maybe I should try a strainer. I thought ramapo was a plum?

Mark you seem to be the plum expert!! which is the sweetest "aroma"? Which is the tangiest "aroma"?

I thought ramapo was a plum?

****

No, it's a round red and what Bark has is a version that I dehybridized that he feels has most of the same qualities as the F1 original, with which I agree.

Some folks are now on the F4 and F5 of this dehybridized version and it seems to be holding up quite well as to stabillity.

And I also agree with what Bark said, and that's the meaty varieties have few seed locules, thus fewer seeds to deal with.

I think it['s just a matter or trying different varieties and trying strainers for seeds such as Mark uses, and then deciding what works best for you in terms of taste, sauce consistency and seed removal.

One of my favorite traditional plum shaped types that is a tomato machine - and has the advantage of good fresh flavor (so more versatile than many of the Roma types) is the bright yellow fruited, indeterminate Yellow Bell. To me, this is a highly underrated variety...you just gotta like yellow tomato sauce or paste!

I don't grow specific types for sauce or paste - I use whatever is ripe....you just need to adjust the time to evaporate off the moisture (esp. in those that are particularly juicy).

"The Sarnowski family, from whom I got the seeds, wanted to call it a plum, but I don't see it that way at all."

Carolyn,What would you call it?



The reasons I don't like paste tomatoes, as a group, are b'c many are very susceptible to Early Blight ( A. solani) as well as BER, and most importantly to me, as a group do not have such great tastes. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Carolyn, I agree with your comment regarding plum and early blight. But I have to then wonder- if such a problem how come they have become the defacto standard for canning and making sauce? How can commercial growers hang their hats on a tomato with susceptability to blight and BER (some of my Opalka suffered from this).

Is there something about plum tomatoes that make them especially good for sauce?

There are huge companies in Italy making a living on San Marzano- which I consider bland for fresh eating but great when cooked down. Seems like I am missing something here.

Anyway- I am loving all the comments. Its going to make my decison tough for next year.

Here! You decide! some are other people's comments, list is mostly in alphabetical order. I've included some excellent heart varieties too. Some listed are great canners as well:

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]BISIGNANO #2[/COLOR][/B]--70 DAYS--Large spreading Indet. vine, to 14 oz. prolific, variable shape,(globe to plum) on same plant. Great flavor, juicy and seedy, a great all purpose tomato. Sturdy, rampant vines, set out four different fruit shapes; oval, globes, plums, and large heart shapes. All are thick walled and meaty, deep orange-red with full, rich tomato flavor. One of the best processing types you'll ever find. From Italy at least 30 years ago, via Mr. Bisignano (finalist in Victory Garden TV contest of 1984) for whom the tomato named.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]"BLOCKY" MARZANO-[/COLOR][/B]--70-80 DAYS--INDET. San Marzano type plants, seeds originally from El Salvador. Most fruits are red, lobed or ribbed like a bell pepper, but still a plum shape like the original San Marzano, about 3 inches long by up to 2 inches wide/square, in clusters of 4 to 8 or so.

[COLOR=#ff0000][B]BUTTER AND BULL HEART[/B][/COLOR]*--75-80 DAYS--Nice, 3-4" pink, heart-shaped fruits, almost coming to a rounded point on the bottom on many; very good flavor; a good tomato for canning or slicing. Originally from Jenny Virsnieks, a Latvian immigrant now living in ★★★★★★★★ City, WI.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]ERNIE'S PLUMP[/COLOR][/B]--75-80 DAYS--Cooks down to the the reddest, richest, flavorful sauce ever! 8 -12oz. fruits are a most unique shape: "plump" double pears with a tiny blossom scar, almost a wide bell-shaped. Rich beyond words. Extreme producer.

[COLOR=#ff0000][B]HEIDI[/B][COLOR=#000000]--75 DAYS--Medium sized INDET. plant that bears thick walled paste type fruits with tender skin. Originated in Cameroon. 2.5" pear shape, red paste fruit, rich tomato flavor, high yields. [/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000][B]HERMAN'S YELLOW[/B][/COLOR]--75-80 DAYS--Droopy foliage type INDET. Golden to pale orange heart shaped, with intense but balanced flavor, with slight hints of citrus; 12-16oz or more.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]HORVATH[/COLOR][/B]--75-80 DAYS--Perhaps my biggest surprise in cooking-type tomatoes. The plant was grown in a 4 gallon bucket (maybe 3/4ths full) with drip irrigation and put out huge, blocky, pointy plums, some 6 inches long by 3 inches wide. Very few seeds inside. Very meaty and solid. Great for sauce or canning. Family heirloom of the Horvath Family, Edison, NJ, original seed from an area in Italy on the Adriatic Sea.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]JOE'S PLUM[/COLOR][/B]--75-85 DAYS--[SIZE=3]Indet[/SIZE][SIZE=4]. [/SIZE]Huge red 8-12oz. plums with solid flesh, not many seeds and sweet rich flavor. Plants produce high yields. Big (up to 4x5"), blocky, red, very meaty fruits; great for canning but I loved them fresh. Originally from Charles Daidone, NJ, who got seeds from a gardener named Joe who got seeds from Italy.

[COLOR=#ff0000][B]KALMAN'S HUNGARIAN PINK[/B][/COLOR]*--77-82 DAYS--INDET. Hungarian heirloom imported by Kalman Lajvort of Edison, N.J. 8-10oz for me using drip fertigation. Outstanding flavor & production; somewhat barrel or plum shaped pinks.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]KHIRHIV[/COLOR][/B]--75 DAYS--Indet. A large elongated plum shaped red with great flavor. Can be used fresh, for sauce, or canned.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]KORNEY'S CROSS F6-T[/COLOR][/B]--65-70 DAYS--An intentional cross between a determinate rugose leaf red beefsteak pollinated by Black Plum; F5 seed produced 2 different versions, this one is a 2-2.5"+ brown/mahogany slightly plum-shaped fruit. This version is slightly taller than it is wide, more plum shaped, and slightly more solid than KORNEY'S CROSS F6-W. Thick walls, tangy acidic flavor, great for salsa or whole canning. Stays on plant well, keeps on counter for a while.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]MARTINO'S ROMA[/COLOR][/B]--75-80 DAYS--DET. Rugose leaf. Great flavored heavy yielder of 2-3 oz Red plum/pear type fruit, possibly the highest yielding of all the Roma types. 3 in. long. These paste-type fruit are meaty with few seeds and almost no juice, perfect for cooking, salsa, etc. Compact determinate plants.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]ORANGE BANANA[/COLOR][/B]*--85 DAYS--Indet. Orange Banana was the clear winner of an autumn paste taste at the Shipmans in Maine. Sweet flavor of Sungold but with more depth, makes a great sauce by itself, or adds a fruity complexity to other sauces. Orange fruits 3-4" long avg 4-5 oz.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]POWER'S HEIRLOOM[/COLOR][/B]--80 DAYS--INDET. Clear yellow large paste type plum tomato, 4-7 oz. usually 3½" long with a slight point on the blossom end. Very productive and pretty. Sweet, juicy. Heavy set of light yellow fruits with pale yellow almost white flesh.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]PRUE[/COLOR][/B]--80-85 DAYS--INDET. Wispy almost floppy leaved plant. The tomato of Mr. Henry Prue, an old timer born at the turn of the century who started gardening back in the 20’s-30’s. Somewhere between plum and heart shaped, very meaty, can vary in size from 3” wide at the top and 4” long with a nipple, to being 4” wide and 5” long. About 5-12oz though some bigger, occasionally hitting a pound or more. Prue starts turning a pinkish/red in a variegated pattern and parts are green while other parts are getting red--at first uneven ripening at early stages, though it ends up solid red. Sometimes thought to resemble a “Charley Brown Christmas tree" with scrawny sparse leaves that often look twisted or flopping over! It's taste is very good, quite different from many other reds, a somewhat earthy taste, not all that sweet, the essence of what tomatoey would be, all sorts of tastes linger on the tongue after you've taken a mouthful.

[COLOR=#ff0000][B]RIO GRANDE[/B][/COLOR]--75 DAYS--Determinate. Rugose-leaved, compact growth. Seems very disease resistant - A super canner, out produces anything I have seen. Fruit larger & twice as much as Roma. Giant plum shaped to globe shaped. Expect 4 quarts of sauce per plant. [B]NOTE: MINE CONTINUOUSLY TOPPLE THE CHEAP 3-RING HARDWARE STORE CAGES.[/B]

[COLOR=#ff0000][B]ROSALIE'S PASTE[/B][/COLOR]*--80 DAYS--INDET. A large bright red heart shaped paste. Meaty with nice flavor. Heavy production. 3 x 4-inch, pointed. A great sauce tomato. Good concentrated flavors. Juicy enough to make a good slicer too.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]RUSSIAN 117[/COLOR][/B]--80-85 DAYS--Large red heart-shaped fruit is often doubled like side-by-side hearts, up to 1 lb. or more. Great taste, solid dense meat and not many seeds. More productive than the typical oxheart types.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]SLANKARD'S[/COLOR][/B]*--75-85 DAYS--Large pink blocky hearts, many 1lb or more, quite productive, mild, meaty. Large (4-5"), very few seeds; great flavor; excellent canner. Family heirloom Michael Byrne of MI.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]SOJOURNER SOUTH AMERICAN[/COLOR][/B]*--80-55 DAYS--INDET. regular leaf. Large to very large blocky plum shaped fruit. Extremely heavy for its size! Bright red with excellent, wonderfully sweet flavor. Said to keep setting fruit in 100° weather and drought. Sometimes a bit slow to fully ripen but you WILL be rewarded. [B]NOTE: THIS WAS A GREAT SURPRISE, SWEET & MEATY, PLUS STILL A LITTLE JUICY, MOST 3½-4" X 2½-3"W. EARLIER THAN CLAIMED.[/B]

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]SPECKLED ROMAN[/COLOR][/B]--75 DAYS--Up to 5x3" tapered red fruits with stunning wavy golden orange stripes; fruits meaty and with excellent flavor; very productive.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]TEN FINGERS of NAPLES ( Dix Doights De Naples )[/COLOR][/B]*--Clusters of elongated plum tomatoes! Heavy yields on tall vines produce plenty of fruits in bunches of 4 to 8 or more, lots of elongate little blocky bright red paste tomatoes. Firm meaty tomatoes with little seeds, excellent tomato for cooking, paste, puree, etc.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]UKRAINIAN HEART[/COLOR][/B]--75-80 DAYS--A "Huge" surprise for me! These were large to very large pinks, almost triangular wedges, one of the best tasting varieties I grew this past season. Large pink, 5", round fruit, high shoulders, flat sides, sweet flavor, to 1.5 lbs.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]UNCLE STEVE'S[/COLOR][/B]*--70-80 DAYS--Italian plum of Steve Messina, 6oz and up plum type tomato, nice and meaty, great for cooking, and sauce, juicy enough to eat fresh too. Mine were HUGE blocky plums, some 5-6 inches long and over 3 inches wide when grown in a 4 gallon bucket with drip irrigation! Uncle Steve's, [COLOR=#0000ff]Horvath[/COLOR], and [COLOR=#0000ff]Yugoslavian[/COLOR] were my biggest "cooking tomato" surprises of the season.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]WAGNER'S ITALIAN[/COLOR][/B]--70-80 DAYS--Indet. Deep pink elongated/pointed plum shaped paste tomato. This was beautifully aromatic, tasty and sweet, good enough to eat fresh. Very rare for a plum/paste type, since most are red and really dry--Wagner's was juicy enough for fresh eating, or in salads, and a beautiful deep pink color.

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]WES[/COLOR][/B]*--75-80 DAYS--INDET. Wispy oxheart type foliage. Large heart shaped red fruits, often with blunt bottoms (no points) and some almost huge doubles. Great flavor; cut it open and smell the intense aroma; not many seeds. A great tomato!

[B][COLOR=#ff0000]YUGOSLAVIAN[/COLOR][/B]--75-80 DAYS--A great yet unusual tomato. Deep pink almost plum-shaped to pear-shaped fruits, some doubles, produced all season for me. Wonderful aroma when cut open, and great taste too! A slight bit of hollowness on some, but juicier than a paste type tomato. 4-6oz fruits about 2½ inches by 3 inches, the doubles were up to 4 inches wide. Was great, my favorite sliced on white pizza all season long.

Roughwood Golden Plum--Indet. Potato Leaf. Orange fruits resemble 2 plum tomatoes grown together; was a stable F9 cross of Yellow Brandywine x San Marzano. up to 5oz.

Sarnowski Polish Plum--4-6 oz. mostly plum-shaped red paste type tomatoes on sprawling vines. Good flavor and yield. Family heirloom brought to NY from Poland in 1890s. Indeterminate.

Wuhib--3" long 3-chambered dry, meaty paste tomato on semi-determinate 3½' vines; quite productive and somewhat larger than San Marzano, but more difficult to prepare for drying due to odd number of chambers. NY MA C 96 From Tadessee Wuhib of Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.

didn't mean to upset you Mark. Thanks for the info.

[quote=where_with_all;70432]didn't mean to upset you Mark. Thanks for the info.[/quote]

Upset me? not at all. It's just hard to remember what everything tastes like and hard to tell you in words... I grow 80-100 varieties each year (very few in brought back consecutive years--I still have seeds for maybe 100 varieties I didn't get to yet!)) and some I even miss--they slip by me, get given away, get used for seeds or cooking mixed with other varieties, I get tomato burnout, etc.

I posted everything above from my spring ebay ad, they are honest general consensus descriptions plus many have my personal comments, especially if I liked them, though just because something doesn't have my personal comments in bold print doesn't mean it wasn't very good or great....some have my personal experiences within the generic descriptions.

It's best to carefully read the descriptions and draw your own conclusions on which to try, and the only way you'll know if they are great or not is to grow them!

I'm glad I can help!

Mark

Picardy is a great canner plus general all around tomato. The French have been using it for cooking since 1885. The French don't use a cooking ingredient for over a 100 years unless it has great taste.

Andes Horn is a great canner plus cooks down into a sauce that is A+. Also it tastes good enough to use fresh. CHOPTAGers have tasted both canned and the opinion on which tastes best was split.

I also cook down anything I grow into sauce. The result is fantastic. But canning whole is a whole nother ballgame. Actually, I don't can whole ones, I cut in half and remove the seeds.

I'm trying some new canner types this year but the jury is still out.

[FONT=Arial]Not having the experience, I thought it would be fun to grow [B]Banana Legs and Green Sauage. [/B][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]What a shock! :shock: :shock: :shock: [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]First, very good looking fruits, nothing much in terms of taste for fresh eating :? , but OMG!!! non-stop fruit production![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]Because they are not very good tasting, so I have not been paying attention to them. I just let them crawl all over the ground with mud all over them and I never spray them with anything, yet there is not any sign of disease[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=2].[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Today, I Just made[B] three gallons[/B] of yellow salsa! Thank goodness for Ziplock bags;) [/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Many more to come. Trying to decide on a sauce recipe.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]dcarch[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]

I am growing Yellow Bell, Rio Grande, Heidi, Olpalka, and Aker's Pink plum this year. So far Rio Grande is the largest and best producing, although mine look more elongated than Mark's photo. The yellow bell are on the smaller side, as are Aker's Pink Plum. Heidi is doing great, but Olpalka has something wrong with it. It hasn't looked very healthy and isn't producing. I'll try a different source for seeds and give it another try though since so many recommend it. I've also had good luck with plain old San Marzano. I liked that I could leave them on the counter for a few days and they wouldn't get too ripe or soft before I got around to using them, they also add a really rich red color to sauce. I am growing Campbell's 1327 this year, so I'll see how it does. I'm just barely starting to get ripe tomatoes, so I'll have to come back to this thread in a few weeks. Last year the tomato I canned the most of was Early Goliath. It had a good taste and was very productive for me, even in the heat, and early enough that I got a lot of ripe fruit off of it before it got too cold. It was a lot bigger than Kimberly, so they were easier to peel. Monomakha's Hat has been producing well this year, so it might be a good heart variety for sauce. Anyway, don't know if I've been of much help...

Tyffanie

Mark, truly droolworthy photos. Thanks for posting all that eye candy, and please don't ever lose your trademark white foam plate. ;)

I see you've posted one, but here's my pic of Sarnowski Polish Plum. I really don't grow many paster or cooking types, but (I repeat myself) was really impressed with this one. I got some really pretty doubles earlier in the season that I did not get a pic of:

[URL="http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/v/memberphotos/suze/Spring+2007/Ripe+fruits+and+sliced+pics/sarnowski+polish+plum.jpg.html"] [IMG]http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/d/6120-2/sarnowski+polish+plum.jpg[/IMG]
Click for Larger Size[/URL]

Perito Italian, another winner:

[URL="http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/v/memberphotos/suze/Spring+2007/Ripe+fruits+and+sliced+pics/perito+italian.jpg.html"] [IMG]http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/d/5658-2/perito+italian.jpg[/IMG]
Click for Larger Size[/URL]

I'll also throw in a pic of Picardy, since Unca Earl did not post one:

[URL="http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/v/memberphotos/suze/2006+tomatoes/picardy.jpg.html"] [IMG]http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/d/861-2/picardy.jpg[/IMG]
Click for Larger Size[/URL]

VB Russia, which Carolyn mentioned recently (but maybe not on this thread):

[URL="http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/v/memberphotos/suze/Spring+2007/Ripe+fruits+and+sliced+pics/vb+russia.jpg.html"] [IMG]http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/d/6177-2/vb+russia.jpg[/IMG]
Click for Larger Size[/URL]

Tony's Italian, which was only moderately productive for me, but outstanding flavor:

[URL="http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/v/memberphotos/suze/Spring+2007/Ripe+fruits+and+sliced+pics/tonys+italian.jpg.html"] [IMG]http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/d/6144-2/tonys+italian.jpg[/IMG]
Click for Larger Size[/URL]

Linnie's Oxheart, which I am totally in love with (lighting could have been better):

[URL="http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/v/memberphotos/suze/Spring+2007/Ripe+fruits+and+sliced+pics/linnies+oxheart.jpg.html"] [IMG]http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/d/6129-2/linnies+oxheart.jpg[/IMG]
Click for Larger Size[/URL]

Heinz 1370, an old "Mischka" favorite, excellent for cooking/canning:

[URL="http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/v/memberphotos/suze/Spring+2007/Ripe+fruits+and+sliced+pics/heinz+1370.jpg.html"] [IMG]http://www.feldoncentral.com/garden/photos/d/6141-2/heinz+1370.jpg[/IMG]
Click for Larger Size[/URL]

[quote=nctomatoman;70425]One of my favorite traditional plum shaped types that is a tomato machine - and has the advantage of good fresh flavor (so more versatile than many of the Roma types) is the bright yellow fruited, indeterminate Yellow Bell. To me, this is a highly underrated variety...you just gotta like yellow tomato sauce or paste![/quote]

That's good to know. I've had seeds for Yellow Bell for three years now from Deer Park, maybe I will finally give this one a go next spring.

[quote=where_with_all;70428]"The Sarnowski family, from whom I got the seeds, wanted to call it a plum, but I don't see it that way at all."

Carolyn,What would you call it?

I'd call it a shorter fatter long red type such as Opalka. Please see the picture of Sarnowski that Suze posted. And yes, I forgot about Perito Italian, another variety I was lucky to get as well as Tony's Italian, and you could add in Matt D Imperio as well, if it's more of a plum type you want.


*****
The reasons I don't like paste tomatoes, as a group, are b'c many are very susceptible to Early Blight ( A. solani) as well as BER, and most importantly to me, as a group do not have such great tastes. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Carolyn, I agree with your comment regarding plum and early blight. But I have to then wonder- if such a problem how come they have become the defacto standard for canning and making sauce? How can commercial growers hang their hats on a tomato with susceptability to blight and BER (some of my Opalka suffered from this).

*****

Commercial growers spray the heck out of their commercial crops to prevent Early Blight and other fungal diseases. And depending on their growing conditions they too have to put up with BER which is a mutimillion dollar problem in the tomato industry b'c there is no known sure fire way to prevent it.

*****
Is there something about plum tomatoes that make them especially good for sauce?

Not that I know of per the comments of several here including myself.

*****
There are huge companies in Italy making a living on San Marzano- which I consider bland for fresh eating but great when cooked down. Seems like I am missing something here.

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I don't know if you are or not.:)

Anyway- I am loving all the comments. Its going to make my decison tough for next year.[/quote]

Just make a list of every variety that everyone has mentioned to you and grow out a few each year to see what suits you best.:)

i got uncle steve from my great uncle who was born in sicily. i've grown it for over 30 years now. i like it because its good fresh or cooked. the flavor kind of evolves as you're eating it, and lingers in the mouth. a nice tomatoey flavor. not sweet or tart, or acid bite. foilage is pretty much like prue which i'm also growing this year. long wispy floppy branches. you could call them the weeping willows of the tomato world. the largest one that i weighed was about 15 oz. most are smaller than that however. production is good, moderate, but not heavy. it did much better for me growing in the metro detroit area than it does in calumet which is known for copper, snow and hockey. not tomatos.
i think its a good one.

keith in calumet

If you limit yourself to plums for sauces you'll be missing a lotta good sauce.:D We don't find the seeds to affect the flavor, but you could use one of the strainers mentioned earlier. We mix all the varieties together and reduce to the desired volume when making sauces for canning. Grow first for flavor and then make sauce with what you have. You will have good sauce.:D

Of the plums I've grown, Prue is my favorite, followed by Opalka. Opalka, though, has not been a reliable producer for me and I haven't grown it for the last few years.

Thank you all- time to start thinking.

I am reviving this thread after a lot of thinking from all the good input.

I went through every one's suggestions and narrowed my choices down to about eight varieties.

My filters were based on a couple of important factors. Production has to be top notch in order to can sauce. The second most important factor is time to maturity. I live on long island. It is not a short season but when you start getting past 80-85 days it really becomes a hassle. I'll do the things I need to do to get my few brandywines but I can't do 20 plants of canning tomatos too early and then have to stress about a late frost. Fresh taste is really important because I would like to use these tomatoes as all around types for salsa.

Can anyone help me distingish comparisons between these eight along the attributes listed? I am looking for relative comparisons to each other. I figure I only have room to grow four next year. Any help would be appreciated as I embark on my quest for the perfect paste/plum/oxheart/ etc. allaround tomato.

[B][FONT=Verdana]------------------Days-------[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]Size ([/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]oz)--- [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]Taste --[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]seeds--- [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]Production[/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Verdana]Joes Plum -------[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]75-85------- [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]8-12 ----[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]great ---F[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]ew ------?[/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Verdana]Kaman’s Hung --[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]77-82 ------[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]8-10 -----[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]great ----? ------[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]good[/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Verdana]Orange Banana --[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]85 --------[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]4-5 ----[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]great----- ?------ [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]ok[/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Verdana]Rosalie’s Paste ---[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]80 -------[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]4-5----- [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]blah ------? -------[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]Great[/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Verdana]Speckled Roman --[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]75 -------[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]4-5---- [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]great ------?------ [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]good[/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Verdana]Wagner Italian ---[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]70-80---- [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]2-4------[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]great---- ?------ ?[/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Verdana]Sarnowski Polish --[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]???------ [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]4-6---- [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]good------ ? ------[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]good[/FONT][/B]
[B][FONT=Verdana]Ernie’s Plum -------[/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]75-80---- [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]8-12---- [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]ok------- ?------ [/FONT][/B][B][FONT=Verdana]Great[/FONT][/B]


[B][COLOR=red][FONT=Verdana]Key: blah<OK<good<great[/FONT][/COLOR][/B]

I'll have to comment more later, I'm out to save seeds now, but I don't completely agree with your filters... and the spelling could just be typos... First rule with Heirlooms is always get the spelling right--they've survived many many years but even so, people still spell some wrong which can lead to confusion with labeling, trading seeds, searching for a variety, etc.

No, I'm not mad WWA!

The filters I think you need to expand more and include Very Good. And I'm not sure where you got blah for Rosalie's, good for Speckled Roman's & Kalman's production, etc. I posted many pics... when I take my pics, I usually have maybe 1 fruit, (sometimes only 1 plant), so if you see a pic with many fruit in it, that generally is an indicator of its production (though a pic with just 1 fruit does not mean it's low production.) So production of ones like Speckled Roman would be Very Good or High... Wagner's you can judge by the pics too. Kalman's said right in the description "Outstanding taste & production" I think. Ernie's Plump the taste is typical/ok/good raw but perhaps great or outstanding as sauce, and production I'd call "extreme."

More when I get back in...

Hello Korney

I thought I spelled everything right but maybe I messed up on a couple. I abreviated some of the names so the table would be alligned right.

As far as filters go I'm happy to include "very good" in between good and great.

You make the statement:
[I]so if you see a pic with many fruit in it, that generally is an indicator of its production (though a pic with just 1 fruit does not mean it's low production.)[/I]

Does a pic with two fruit in it mean low production?? In the pics you posted for these tomatoes there were plates with 2 fruit, 3 fruit and lots of fruit. What measurment are your using for low production? Are the two and tree fruit low producers compared to the ones with lots of fruit on the plate? Is Joe's plum much less productive than Wagner or only a little?

With regards to Blah- this is my attempt to call it like it is relative to the other tomatos. The blah lable is only in reference to the other tomatoes. I hate tomato descriptions that never say anything bad. For once I would love to get an answer--Like this tomato tastes like cardboard when compared to Joe's plum, or this tomato produces only 1lbs per plant or you get the drift.

Within the context of these eight tomato's there absolutely must be a best producer and worst producer (under the same growing conditions). There also must be a best tasting and worst tatsting under the same growing and taste bud (or as you prefer smell) conditions. --its just life. We can't all be 10's and we can't all be 1's. A room full of geniuses will have a smartest person and a... well you get the picture.

Generally, if it's not a determinate, a pic with 2 fruit means better production than a pic with 1 fruit... unless I ate the 2nd one and it couldn't be present. ;)

I just edited my above post with a really long reply and tried going "advanced" and lost everything... more when I can--I have #'s but they are hard to put here in column format.. like (437) 2oz fruits/plant, 49.9lbs/plant for Ten Fingers of Naples, (96) 8oz fruits from an Ernie's Plump plant, 268 3oz San Marzanos, (99) 5.5oz Bisignano #2, etc... all were from a study done on 100 heirloom tomatoes--some well known, some obscure...lbs/plant, fruit/plant, brix, pH, etc... Too bad you can't come to the Buffalo-Niagara Tastefest Party this Saturday--I sometimes sell seeds on ebay in the spring but will probably be giving away 50-100 packs for free Saturday...

Mark,

I am eager to see your thoughts? Its ashame we can't send attachments. Judging from your comment, ernies plump rules in terms of production.

Anyway-- driving 10 hrs to buffalo is not an option for me this weekend. Kids soccer, wife, chores, and work, etc.

I would love to do a taste test here on long island one day- There are lots of posters here and on the old site from the area.

Also send me your ebay store link. after i figure out what i want i'll buy the seed you.

thanks

WWA