Best Market Black Tomato?
 

I usually ask something along these lines every year or two in order to see if anything new has come on strong, and to get a feel for how the standard varieties have done for the market growers here over the past year.

Cherokee Purple still tops the list in popularity, but I get too much splitting to put it first on the list for market growing. Perhaps the second on many lists is Paul Robeson. And then there's Indian Stripe, Carbon, Black Brandywine, Black Krim, Amazon Chocolate and others that are well known. Some that I am not too familiar with that seem to get a lot of good reviews are Black Stripe and a new one called Wild Fred, a dwarf.

Now that the 2020 season is over, I'd like to get comments about the best dark market tomato, with an emphasis on uniformity in shape and the most crack resistant. I did not get to try Indian Stripe or Black Brandywine last year, so I am particularly interested to see how those did for market growers in the South, where I'm located about 80 below Memphis. It seems that one year the consensus here was that Indian Stripe was the top choice for a good dark tomato for market growing.

I would appreciate any updated suggestions or comments for the 2021 season about a good, nicely formed and crack resistant black, or dark tomato. I have not mentioned the ultimate factor -- taste -- because they all taste good to me and the flavor doesn't seem to be an issue with any of the mainstream blacks that I've tried.

I also didn't mention Black Cherry since it is a cherry tomato and it always seems to rate high with everyone, including me. I wish we had a larger dark slicing tomato with such a nice, uniform shape and crack resistance as the Black Cherry. I may do better concentrating on the mid to smaller sizes, since most of them seem less prone to be gnarled and mis-shapen and less prone to cracking.

Thanks in advance and I look forward to seeing what are the top slicing size dark tomatoes that have done well for you and would do well for market growing.

Don
Wishing you all a safe and blessed 2021

As for heirlooms, you've got the best covered in my opinion.
PBTD is one of my all time fav darks but production may be an issue. Gets soft fast but 10/10 flavor for me.

As for a dark hybrid....Cherokee Carbon!! Monster producer with great taste! Only took one season to become a mainstay.
Big in size as well.
I have a few seeds if needed.

Greg

Thanks for a good review of dark tomatoes you have tried recently. That is a mighty nice and generous offer, too, that I may have to accept. Last year I planted Mortgage Lifter and one other that turned out to be nothing like what they were supposed to be. I may still have some Estler's Mortgage Lifter, which I think most people preferred if they had a choice. Those seeds came from a member here, too.

I should have included "productivity" in my criteria. So now, I'll update it to: 1) Productivity 2) Uniformity of fruit.....having good eye appeal and not deeply ribbed and all gnarled up 3) Crack resistance 4) And at least a few days "shelf life" after picking. Sometimes when picking for market they have to be picked 2-3 days ahead of time. 5) And, of course, taste, which I think all the darks have anyway.

Thanks again for the reply and good info!
Don

I hate to sound like the Village Idiot, but what is "PBTD" ?

Don, one of the issues with Cherokee Purple is that it is only a medium size tomato. I stabilized a bee made cross of Cherokee Purple that makes much larger fruit and has exceptionally good flavor. Drop me an address if interested and I'll send you some seed to try. I offered it here on Tomatoville a few months ago as Cherokee Jumbo. Typical size is about 1.5 pounds.


[url]http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=50534[/url]

Don, I'm sorry. It's Pink Berkley Tie Dye .

Greg

I think it depends on what your market demands, and you as a seller. Here, a big tomato would be a no go for market, Cherokee Purple would already be too big.

Shelf life must be important for you and the buyer, crack resistant is obvious, looks (like catfacing, shape). I'm shocked Black Cherry and crack resistance are in the same sentence, if I could name the ultimate cracking tomato (more like bursting), this would be at the top.

GGWT has been a lot less soft than other black heirlooms for me, also the looks could probably have appeal (stripes, little catfacing, but kind of oblate). Also less shoulder cracking than others. Vigorous plants, definitely should give it a try.

Indian Stripe has the looks down, especially in nice shape and more uniform size from fruit to fruit.

Interesting that Black Cherry cracks for you, it doesn't for me. Different growing conditions? or different strain?

Maybe it is a different strain? I remember quite a few years ago, when talking if BC is a multiflora, and I said it kinda is, and other people in Europe said it is, and everyone was surprised. I got my seeds from TGS.

Black Cherry has cracked in the past for me as well.
They all can crack under certain conditions. I wish there was a crack-proof tomato! Lol

I grew Bear Creek a few years ago, I really don't remember growing it, except that it tasted pretty good. But I read through an old post of mine where I mentioned it going over well at the farmers market because it was pretty perfect, no cracks or catfacing. I do remember liking it better than Cherokee Purple.

I see GGWT and Pink Berkeley Tie Dye mentioned here, and have to say, the striped tomatoes are my best sellers, well, besides the red ones ��. People love the look, but they're not "too weird".

I'm not a market grower, but I'd recommend Indian Stripe PL. It has been the most productive variety in my greenhouse for a number of years - partly because it sets fruit in the heat there. Great taste and good shelf life, too. It's so good that it will take up 1/3 of the space in my greenhouse this year.


Steve

Zipcode has a point about size. People would rather get several smaller tomatoes than one jumbo for the same price. That is one reason I still grow Better Boy. It produces lots of tomatoes in what I might consider the medium or average size for slicing tomatoes.

At $2.00 per pound, it would be hard to sell two 1.5 pound tomatoes for $6.00, while it would seem acceptable to pay the same $6.00 for 10 smaller slicing sandwich tomatoes.

sJamesNorway How do you compare the taste of Indian Stripe to Cherokee Purple?

My problem with Cherokee Purple is inconsistency in my garden. Some years it is knee-bucklingly delicious and productive, other years it is barely ok, or cracks and splits terribly. GGWT and Indian Stripe are very nice. Black Krim, I'm afraid, has the same problems as CP. Amazon Chocolate is one I love, as is Grandma Oliver's Chocolate. Carbon I like a lot, but what I grow isn't very dark.

I'm not a market grower, but I've grown enough dark tomatoes and been in enough markets to be truly puzzled why a market grower would mess around with an heirloom and all their (market) issues when there are so many really nice dark hybrids available, Chef's Choice Black, (All America Winner/75-day maturity), being just one of several fine available options.

I am not trolling. I am genuinely curious.

I have eaten enough of several comparable varieties to know that taste is a subjective toss up and is ruled far more by the conditions the individual tomato was grown in and when it was picked than whether it is OP or hybrid. And I have seen enough tomatoes to know that a good modern black hybrid, like CC Black, is far less likely to split, crack, or turn to mush in the box. And a hybrid will outproduce an OP nine years out of ten, if not ten out of ten.

Again, I am not trolling. I am genuinely curious and am asking a tomato forum, why would a market grower growing tomatoes intended for the market grow an OP like Cherokee Purple rather than, for instance, CC Black or one of many similar excellent offerings now available?

[QUOTE=TomatoDon;761472]Zipcode has a point about size. People would rather get several smaller tomatoes than one jumbo for the same price. That is one reason I still grow Better Boy. It produces lots of tomatoes in what I might consider the medium or average size for slicing tomatoes.

At $2.00 per pound, it would be hard to sell two 1.5 pound tomatoes for $6.00, while it would seem acceptable to pay the same $6.00 for 10 smaller slicing sandwich tomatoes.[/QUOTE]
I'll look at it from the buyer's point of view. It's not only about 2 tomatoes or 10 at the same price as a mental process. For a small family it's actually quite impractical to buy the big ones: either you finish them in one go or you have to put the rest (open to oxygen) in the fridge. And a day in the fridge really spoils the taste no matter how well you wrap it in clingfilm. With smaller ones I can use as many as I need at the moment.
Milan HP

I've had high yields with Indian Stripe, Black Giant and Black Early. The last two are difficult to find seed for. They are both from Belgium and honestly I see no difference. I'm in Wyoming so I have a short growing season.
Barb

I'll add another vote for Indian Stripe. Taste is like CP but in all else different. Nice regular shapes less prone to crack. Reliable producer. Good shelf life. Adaptable to conditions year to year. I trialed a lot of blacks and Indian Stripe was definitely the winner for market quality.
Pink Berkeley Tie Die is a lovely tomato with a unique taste. Zero shelf life so useless for a market grow.

Black Early was promising for us but in the end was not consistent from year to year.

Black from Tula is a pretty good uniform tomato and it sets fruit even in hot weather which I always thought was good. And its fairly early, but for me tended to slow down under really hot temps. Consistence watering is important but like any heirloom its not gonna last for days in a box and I don’t think a decent tasting black would. I have started selling to individuals when ripe. People know me at the markets and I text them when i have some ready and they come to the farm. Cherokee Carbon may be better for you depending on your market

Paul, I am one of the few here that agrees with the position that there is nothing wrong with a good hybrid and there are a lot of good ones. Just as all Hybrids are not bad, not all OP are good. I have never noticed that my taste buds are not normal, but I just "don't get" all the hoopla about the OP's vs Hybrids, and I've gotten a lot of good-natured kidding about it here.

I'm not determined to limit myself to OP only. I'd love to grow any good tasting, nice looking, crack resistant dark hybrid if you, or others here, have more suggestions. I want to be able to offer and sell more darks, but it's been so hard for me to consistently grow good, marketable, OP in any kind of reasonable quantity. I'd love to hear more about hybrid dark tomatoes.

Long growing season here and dark tomatoes do set fruit in the heat but most crack.

However, if you are able to overlook getting a really large tomato, PPP (Pale Perfect Purple) is truly perfect. Sets in the heat, doesn't crack, no stem scar, tiny core, and lots of tomatoes.

I am trying Paul Roberson now as well but started months later and no ripe fruit yet.

This year I will try the Cherokee Jumbo from Darell Jones. For comparison, I want to drop a Cherokee Purple on it. If I had a place, I would give Indian Streepe also. I really liked it. As I read here, I might give Indian Streepe instead of Chderokee Purple. I still have time to change my mind. What do you think?
Vladimír

Do you have room to grow both? If you do, that would be a good way to compare the two in all ways.

I'm a market gardener, and my leaning towards OP over hybrids boils down to seed availability. Hybrids' seeds must be purchased, and the good ones ain't cheap. So only the best, tried and true ones find a place in my garden - Sungold, Big Beef, Jet Star, and a couple grape varieties. I've tried the Chef Choice varieties, all of them, and found them to be just ok in my garden. But if I save my own seed from OP varieties, I find that often they increasingly get better adapted to my garden, and they just cost me some time. So while I'll keep trying hybrids, my main planting will remain heirlooms.

[QUOTE=TomatoDon;761501]... I'd love to hear more about hybrid dark tomatoes.[/QUOTE]

I garden in eastern North Dakota and northwester MN (a house in Grand Forks and a farm across the border). I grow both in the garden and in a small hoop-tent (10' X 10')

I have two-years of experience with Chef's Choice Black, three-years experience with Marnero (a lovely black bred by Johnny's Seeds), and three-years with Black Truffle (a dark pear-type bred by Burpees). I can recommend all three.

For simplicity's sake, I will recommend you try Chef's Choice Black.

[url]https://all-americaselections.org/product/tomato-chefs-choice-black/[/url]

[url]https://tomatogrowers.com/products/chefs-choice-black-hybrid-tomato[/url]

CC Black won All America awards in the Mountain/Southwest, West/Northwest, and Southeast regions (with the Southeast performance indicating it might be a good bet for your Mississippi garden).

CC Black is a strong plant that produces nicely-sized and well-formed dark tomatoes that taste great and look real purty! They are a clear mid-season tomato that produce for me within the same time-frame as Big Beef.

There are some others on this forum that have tried CC Black according to the thread linked below so you might be able to get feedback on CC Black from others than me.

[url]http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=49273[/url]

If Barb FL tried them, she might have the heat-related growing experience you are looking for.



.

One of the biggest and best known tomato seedling sellers always makes special mention of Paul Robeson as their favorite, by far. I have seen Paul Robeson mentioned here many times as being a fine tasting tomato, but never in the context of market growing. What is it rarely, if ever, on the market grower's lists? Lack of productivity?

Johnny's "Marnero" is a lovely dark tomato. For me it starts bearing earlier than Big Beef, sometimes kicking out a couple nearly a week earlier... but by the second flush, the two varieties are about the same).

I imagine the price Johnny's charges for the seed it has developed generates some controversy. It doesn't bother me as a pack of seed gets me five-years or so of plants. And I know there isn't a lot of money to be made breeding tomatoes so I don't blame Johnny's for charging what they think they need to run a breeding program and make a little money at it.

But, saying that, I know it does ____ some people off. Regardless, it is a nice tomato that does really well in my hooptent.

[url]https://www.johnnyseeds.com/vegetables/tomatoes/marnero-f1-tomato-seed-3176.html?cgid=tomatoes#start=73&sz=18[/url]



.

(a whoops)

I don't begrudge Johnny's at all for their prices. I make a yearly, substantial purchase from them, and many of the seeds I get from them are varieties they developed and can't get anywhere else, and I'm not just talking tomatoes here. All I'm saying is that a hybrid tomato that I need to continually buy seeds for needs to be darn good in my garden to be worth it. And some are, for sure. I do get frustrated when they drop a hybrid only they carry, and it's one I like. That seems to be the case with two grape tomatoes I loved from them, the orange grape, Nova, and a yellow grape, Golden Sweet. I'll miss them in my mix, if they don't return.

[QUOTE=FarmerShawn;761515]I'm a market gardener, and my leaning towards OP over hybrids boils down to seed availability. Hybrids' seeds must be purchased, and the good ones ain't cheap. So only the best, tried and true ones find a place in my garden - Sungold, Big Beef, Jet Star, and a couple grape varieties. I've tried the Chef Choice varieties, all of them, and found them to be just ok in my garden. But if I save my own seed from OP varieties, I find that often they increasingly get better adapted to my garden, and they just cost me some time. So while I'll keep trying hybrids, my main planting will remain heirlooms.[/QUOTE]

Ok, that makes sense.

I am doing the same with some pumpkins. I have been saving seed from my earliest maturing pumpkins with very nicest dark green handles for going on seven years now. They keep well, too (probably because they fully mature before frost ends the season up here). The ones I keep the seed from will last on the shelf until I am ready to throw them out come Spring.

But with tomatoes, I have yet to find anything on the OP sided of the fence I would want to keep. For awhile, I thought I had found a strain of Black Krim that was a keeper for up here, but it just had too many bad years after those first couple good ones, and I gave it up. And I have tried Cherokee Purple three times. One year I went with grafted CP's and was hugely disappointed. I've given up on them, too. I've tried Paul Robeson twice. Got three nice tomatoes. Nope.

The OPs I am excited about are these Dwarfs some of you people have developed. This year I will be growing six different varieties in my hoop tent. And I will be be starting a bunch to give away to friends. They are such a fun and easy plant for "less than completely dedicated" gardeners to grow. No sprawling six to eight footers than need to be staked and pruned or put in cage built by a builder-type. I love staking, pruning, building, and fussing, but some just want to grow a couple plants without making it a hobby or a chore. And these dwarfs are perfect. Easy to manage, fun to look at, and good to eat.

I did try save some seed from a nice Chocolate Taz but I messed it up. I'll see what this year brings.