[QUOTE=Rajun Gardener;562582]I'm glad you have time to tinker and get it right.

I've been playing too, I have a dutch bucket hydro system and have a PPM meter so I did some testing. I hope this makes sense

I bought some bulk MG, it's blue compared to the green stuff in the bottle and twice as strong. The blue is 24-8-16
[IMG]http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k570/robnms/Mobile%20Uploads/20160505_124412.jpg[/IMG]

The bottle refills are 12-4-8
[IMG]http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k570/robnms/Mobile%20Uploads/20160505_124331_1.jpg[/IMG]

The MG Tomato food is 18-18-21
[IMG]http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k570/robnms/Mobile%20Uploads/20160505_094650.jpg[/IMG]

I'm not exactly sure how PPM changes with different strengths but it took 6 tbsp of the blue MG mixed with a little water to reach the 450PPM that matches the prepacked bottle.

The instructions on the blue stuff
[IMG]http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k570/robnms/Mobile%20Uploads/20160505_131454.jpg[/IMG]

I went out and started testing all the mixed solutions
I set up the feeder like directions say for the feeder and tested the supplied bottle and out the hose the PPM is 519
I then mixed a batch of the blue stuff, 1 tbsp-1 gallon of water and it tested 885, this is closer to what my hydroponic mix is but maybe it's too strong for the garden to feed more than once a week because we already have most of the requirements to grow compared to hydroponics soil-less mix but I'm just guessing.
I changed the solution in the bottle and ran that home mix of the blue MG I mixed earlier, it was only 186. This should confirm that the fertilizer in the bottles are made from different stuff and I don't have a meter to test so from here I'm winging it.
I mixed another 4.5 tbsp and then it tested 265
I added another 4.5 and it went up to 366
That's a total of 15 tbsp to get 366, I'm guessing another 6 tbsp and it would reach the same PPM as the bottle but about half as much as the recommeded mix in the directions.
I used 1/2 lb of the 1.5lb box I bought for $5.00, that $1.66 for 40 gallons

I haven't been using MG so I can't say if works good mixing it lighter than recommended. I'm sure that most of us amend the soil before planting and that should help to not need a full strength mix as a weekly feeding.

I think it'll work great as a light feeding once a week and I'm gonna start off with 10tbsp and see how it goes. Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

I just want to confirm what your saying. It's been a lot of work getting to this stage and i don't want to burn my plants up.

If i buy the 24-8-16 and add 1/2 pound to a gallon of water. Then fill up 8 used pint bottles with it. I should have about the same mix as whats in the original bottles. Or are you saying that it would be half strength of whats in the bottles and i could feed weekly with it?

Thanks for your time.
Bill

Last year I drilled a hole in the bottom of an empty refill bottle and filled it with water. I then installed it in the feeder (faucet type) and began filling 5 gal buckets to see how many gallons it would take to empty the bottle. It took a little over 8 buckets, or about 42 gallons. This converts to 42 tbsp of MG blue stuff, or 21 oz, or about 1 1/3 lb, so we are in the ball park. I used this ratio to put Texas Tomato Food in the refill bottle and it worked so-so, but I had to constantly go shake up the bottle because the TTF would clog it up in about 5 minutes. I finally gave up on trying to run TTF in it.

This year I have set up a drip system for 150 plants and I'm running the factory refill bottles through the faucet feeder into the drip system. My pressure is quite low and I've run the system for about 1 1/2 hours and my bottle is only about 1/3 empty. The feeder only clicks about ever 2-3 seconds whereas it was clicking faster than once per second when it wasn't connected to the drip system. My drippers are emitting a little less than 1/2 gallon per hour each. That works out to about 75 gallons per hour for all 150. So the feeder through the drip system is only putting out about 1/3 the concentration of fertilizer. I am confused about this.

MrSalvage

I mixed the MG in the box per instructions 1 tbsp-1 gallon of water and tested it with my PPM meter and it measured 885. I then continued to mix it stronger, filled the bottle with it till I got close to that measurement and finally quit when it reached 366. I'm not sure if that is a smart idea to mix that much, I'm worried it might kill the plant but the test show otherwise.

I was trying to get close to what the prepacked bottles measured and that was 519 using the feeder as directed but stopped when I got tired of removing the bottle, remove the cap, empty, add more MG, mix, refill the bottle and test it again.

FYI, I didn't mix it in a gallon container, I used an empty Coffeemate creamer container which is a little less than a half gallon so you should be fine mixing it in a gallon container, that will make it weaker.

Like Salsacharley I too tested how much water run through the feeder it takes to use all the fertilizer and I came up with 40 gallons. I mixed some red food coloring to do the test. So if we go by volume then it should take 40 TBSP for the recommended mix but using half will be closer to what comes in the bottles.

BUT....The blue mix is twice as strong as what comes in the bottle and that's what has me scared to use it at that strength.

I did use the final mix at 50% strength on my tomatoes and they're still fine. When I say 50%, I mean I filled the bottle 1/2 with the mix and 1/2 with water.

So basically I wrote all of this to say that if you use 7tbsp in the feeder the plants will be fine:))

Side story:

I ended up getting mine from Walmart and it came with 1 bottle of fert. They were sold out of all the dang refills. So today we took a ride of to Southern States to buy a sprayer for some DE and they had some refills on sale.

It wasn't the good stuff for veg or maters. All they had were singles that came in the four packs of all purpose. However they must have dropped a pallet or something. All the bottles of all purpose were just laying all kinds of different ways in one spot. Then some were also off to the side in a mater flat or something.

Anyway the girl said the were .25 each. I said ok and we put 20 bottles in the cart. On check out sure enough the girl rang them up at .25 each. So 5 bucks total for 20.

Me and my girl got back out to the truck loaded it up with all of our goodies. Right before she cranked the key i said man that's a heck of a deal.

So asked her to go back in to the store and clean them out. Well we ended up with 64 bottles for $16.00 total. lol go figure...

[QUOTE=Rajun Gardener;563694]MrSalvage

I mixed the MG in the box per instructions 1 tbsp-1 gallon of water and tested it with my PPM meter and it measured 885. I then continued to mix it stronger, filled the bottle with it till I got close to that measurement and finally quit when it reached 366. I'm not sure if that is a smart idea to mix that much, I'm worried it might kill the plant but the test show otherwise.

I was trying to get close to what the prepacked bottles measured and that was 519 using the feeder as directed but stopped when I got tired of removing the bottle, remove the cap, empty, add more MG, mix, refill the bottle and test it again.

FYI, I didn't mix it in a gallon container, I used an empty Coffeemate creamer container which is a little less than a half gallon so you should be fine mixing it in a gallon container, that will make it weaker.

Like Salsacharley I too tested how much water run through the feeder it takes to use all the fertilizer and I came up with 40 gallons. I mixed some red food coloring to do the test. So if we go by volume then it should take 40 TBSP for the recommended mix but using half will be closer to what comes in the bottles.

BUT....The blue mix is twice as strong as what comes in the bottle and that's what has me scared to use it at that strength.

I did use the final mix at 50% strength on my tomatoes and they're still fine. When I say 50%, I mean I filled the bottle 1/2 with the mix and 1/2 with water.

So basically I wrote all of this to say that if you use 7tbsp in the feeder the plants will be fine:))[/QUOTE]

Rajun, Thank you for your response. I guess i will be mixing up a bunch of different strengths based on what all guys have posted. I am def, gonna hack this thing.

I still need to get a back flow preventer and a filter then I will be good to go. I am not trusting Scott's with my well water.

[QUOTE=MrSalvage;565121]Rajun, Thank you for your response. I guess i will be mixing up a bunch of different strengths based on what all guys have posted. I am def, gonna hack this thing.

I still need to get a back flow preventer and a filter then I will be good to go. I am not trusting Scott's with my well water.[/QUOTE]


When your ready to talk back flow prevention let me know.
Worth

Hey Worth, Hope you guys are okay down there! My son who lives north of Dallas says it's raining like crazy.

Now, I know you said somewhere that the MG Injector had a backflow preventer all ready. I am also sure there must be some sort of screen in it as well.

Anyway I just don't trust the thing Worth. So i want to beef up the system a little bit for our own protection. So yep lets hash that out right here is this thread. All the info on this unit should remain here.

Thanks man
Bill

[QUOTE=MrSalvage;565114]Side story:

I ended up getting mine from Walmart and it came with 1 bottle of fert. They were sold out of all the dang refills. So today we took a ride of to Southern States to buy a sprayer for some DE and they had some refills on sale.

It wasn't the good stuff for veg or maters. All they had were singles that came in the four packs of all purpose. However they must have dropped a pallet or something. All the bottles of all purpose were just laying all kinds of different ways in one spot. Then some were also off to the side in a mater flat or something.

Anyway the girl said the were .25 each. I said ok and we put 20 bottles in the cart. On check out sure enough the girl rang them up at .25 each. So 5 bucks total for 20.

Me and my girl got back out to the truck loaded it up with all of our goodies. Right before she cranked the key i said man that's a heck of a deal.

So asked her to go back in to the store and clean them out. Well we ended up with 64 bottles for $16.00 total. lol go figure...[/QUOTE]
That's a Hella good deal, I would've done the same. Keep us posted on the results and modifications you make to the mix.

[QUOTE=MrSalvage;565126]Hey Worth, Hope you guys are okay down there! My son who lives north of Dallas says it's raining like crazy.

Now, I know you said somewhere that the MG Injector had a backflow preventer all ready. I am also sure there must be some sort of screen in it as well.

Anyway I just don't trust the thing Worth. So i want to beef up the system a little bit for our own protection. So yep lets hash that out right here is this thread. All the info on this unit should remain here.

Thanks man
Bill[/QUOTE]

Home Depot started selling most of the stuff for drip tape irrigation, filters, backflow and pressure reducers.
[url]http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-3-4-in-FHT-25-psi-Regulator-HT07525PSI/202262484?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-VF-PLA-D26P-Plumbing%7c&gclid=CL3E5f7chc0CFdgQgQodi70Hvg&gclsrc=aw.ds[/url]

Okay you have some options the cheap vacume breaker the put on faucets.
And good vacuum breakers.

With a vacuum breaker they need to be I think at least 18 inches higher than your highest emitter.

I dont think you want pay what I paid for mine, it is rated for a chemical plant.
Here it is.
[url]http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Febco-Irrigation-Backflow-Device-p/fe860-100.htm[/url]

Here is what I am thinking about but it isn't for your main line just for the water going to you fertilizer system.

[url]http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Aqualine-Brass-Atmostpheric-Vacuum-Breaker-p/avb-075.htm[/url]


Any time you connect chemicals to the water supply you should have these.
You are on a well so if it contaminates your well you are screwed.

Look up Plumbing cross connection.

Worth

[QUOTE=Worth1;565140]Okay you have some options the cheap vacume breaker the put on faucets.
And good vacuum breakers.

With a vacuum breaker they need to be I think at least 18 inches higher than your highest emitter.

I dont think you want pay what I paid for mine, it is rated for a chemical plant.
Here it is.
[url]http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Febco-Irrigation-Backflow-Device-p/fe860-100.htm[/url]

Here is what I am thinking about but it isn't for your main line just for the water going to you fertilizer system.

[url]http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Aqualine-Brass-Atmostpheric-Vacuum-Breaker-p/avb-075.htm[/url]


Any time you connect chemicals to the water supply you should have these.
You are on a well so if it contaminates your well you are screwed.

Look up Plumbing cross connection.

Worth[/QUOTE]

The second one Worth for the ten bucks. Does that one also need to be 18 inches above the emitter?

Also with my emitter being the end of my hose line. (I don't have any emitters yet) Does that change anything? I might need to draw a picture to better explain what I am thinking.

Probably set it up like a vent stack mounted on a 2x4 in the yard.

[QUOTE=MrSalvage;565220]The second one Worth for the ten bucks. Does that one also need to be 18 inches above the emitter?

Also with my emitter being the end of my hose line. (I don't have any emitters yet) Does that change anything? I might need to draw a picture to better explain what I am thinking.

Probably set it up like a vent stack mounted on a 2x4 in the yard.[/QUOTE]

Okay the first one that is expensive only has to be above ground, this way water can drip out of the bottom.

At any time the pressure on the supply side is lower than the down stream side it will dump water.

It doesn't matter where the emitters are at.

The vacuum breaker can be on a pole as long as it is before the source of contamination (MG do hickey) and around a foot to 18 inches higher than the highest emitter.

As was said the4y have a lot of this stuff at the big box store but you may be miss led or get the wrong thing or junk.
I have bought all of it at one time or another. :lol:
The have check valves they sell, these will not work or at least not listed to be used on a system such as yours.
This all seems like over kill but it really isn't considering what can and has gone wrong.

Here is a link that explains the types and what they are used for and why.
I had rather you understand they why and how as to just be lead to the right thing.

Go to the button and they have a list in the subject.
This way you will know and wont be misled at the big box store and get the wrong thing.
[url]http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Backflow-Preventers-s/21.htm[/url]
Here they want us to use at least a hose bib vacuum breaker.

I am going to put out one more example as to why and when you would need one.
These examples are in the searches cor cross connection I asked you to look for.

Lets say old Bubba has a big tank half full of hog flop.
He wants to add water to it and fill the tank up for what ever reason.
He is fine as long as he is holding the hose above the surface of the water and hog flop in the tank.

He hears the phone ring and puts the hose in the tank to go answer the phone.
Now the end of the hose in in the hog flop water.

While he is on the phone the water main breaks or his well pump stops and the foot valve fails in the well.
Now all of the hog flop water is going to be siphoned back into the water supply.
So to make it simple these devices are as a last resort back up if all else fails.

I am a huge proponent of back flow devices and the right kind.

I can assure you it isn't just some silly regulation and I am sure they started doing it tears ago because of some bad experiences. :lol:
In many case as here in Texas that well may be on your place and your well.
But it is part of an aquifer that covers a huge part of Texas.

Sermon over.:roll:

Worth

Introducing my latest Miraclegro LiquaFeed Hijack.

I have switched ferts from TTF to Hydro Gardens 4-18-38 + MGSO4 and CaNO3 only because AKMark (and look at his stuff!) uses it, and it dissolves beautifully in concentrated form. I still love TTF but it is very labor intensive for my cheapo setup requiring manual watering since it won't perform well in the LiquaFeed system.

My rig consists of a reusable grocery bag with 2 holes cut in the bottom hanging from the top of my trellis system. I put 2 empty TTF 1 gal bottles upside down in the bags so the openings extrude through the holes. For each bottle I drilled a 7/8" hole in the bottle's lids and inserted rubber grommets. Into the grommets I inserted 1/2" tubing with a male end cap attached. To the male end cap I attached a PVC valve, and to the bottom of the valve I attached 5/8" OD/ 1/2" ID clear tubing. The bottom end of the tubing is inserted into the top of an empty LiquaFeed bottle that I also drilled a 7/8" hole in, with a grommet inserted.

The idea is to be able to provide continuous feeding for at least 2 days before refilling is required.

I have 2 significant bugs to work out, and any suggestions are most welcome. First, the connection at the LiquaFeed bottles leak due to the pressure being to great for the weak grommet connection. I need to get a stronger seal at the bottle connection.

Second, there is no venting for the draining of the 1 gal supply bottles as they feed into the LiquaFeed bottles so a significant vacuum forms, causing very restricted drainage.

So there ya go!

Salsacharley
Uniseal
Usplastic sells 'em

Salsa you spent more time and trouble connecting to the bottles than you would have by cutting the bottle threaded top off and epoxying it to a piece of 1 inch SCH 40 PVC.;)

Worth

Worth, when can I expect the adapters? PM me the bill.:D

[QUOTE=Rajun Gardener;572347]Worth, when can I expect the adapters? PM me the bill.:D[/QUOTE]

Here is what I will do there have been a person or two ask for them.
I can make them and you guys are going to have to supply your own green cap to go on the ends.
Will this work?

One of the reasons I have held off is I want to get to the point I can thread like I am driving a car with confidence.
I have practiced my tail off and am about there.

I have to say it is spooky turning a big chunk of steel loose and sending it off toward a big chunk of spinning steel like a runaway train and stopping it one inch before they collide.
It is like patting your head and rubbing your belly running as fast as you can go.:lol:

Worth

I have the cap, I just need the threaded adapter. You'll get better on the lathe it just takes practice and you'll be fine.

[QUOTE=Worth1;572349]Here is what I will do there have been a person or two ask for them.
I can make them and you guys are going to have to supply your own green cap to go on the ends.
Will this work?

Worth[/QUOTE]

Yep I am cool with that.

Hey I have had two bottles now feed twice to three times as fast as i am use to. Not all caps feed the same. I thought I was imagining it on the first bottle like that. Then another bottle did it to me as well. So i now have both of those empty's marked with magic marker as fast feed.

So something is certainly wrong in Denmark... err Scotts design lol

I think the slow and fast bottles have to do with how the air is let into the bottle to take up the space of the fluid going out.
I have one bottle that goes on a vacuum because something is stopped up and the air wont bubble into the bottle.
I havde yet to figure out where that air is coming from.
My suspicion is it is the 15 PSI atmospheric pressure pushing its way past the little rubber seal in the cap and going into the bottle.
If one rubber seal is softer than the other the feed rate will be different.
This is just a wild guess.
If you look real close at the end of the cap down into the groove you will see three tiny elongated holes in front of the rubber seal.
This I think is where the air is entering.
Ont the outside edge of the cap you will see a wee little cut out on the face of it also.
I think this is the outside air inlet port.
If you put the bottle end of the cap in your mouth and stop up the hole the orifice goes into you can still suck in air.
This is how the made the thing so you can get fluid out but it wont leak out.

They were never meant to be used over again so this is why some are putting out more than others.

So with all of that babble here is the deal.
If you do the glue on the pipe thing or use my adapters you dont have to worry about these air inlets as the container will be vented.
The only reason it is there is because the stuff comes in a close bottle.
I have to take my hat off to the person that came up with this as it is ingenious.

So for the folks that are reusing the bottle if it ever stops working it is because of salt build up.

The orifices are more than likely made by a water or fluid jet with an abrasive in it like they do injector for engines.
It is started at a given pressure as the hole gets bigger the pressure drops, when the pressure gets to a certain level the hole is the right size.


Too much information maybe but I thought some of you all would like to know how these contraptions work.:lol:

Worth

Here I will post the pictures of what I am talking about and come back for the explanation.

In the first pictuer you will see the surface of the cap with an open spot in it, this is not a flaw it is where the air comes in.
Inside that deep groove is the elongated hole and you can see the rubble seal behind it there are three of them around this slot.
In the center hole you can see a tiny slit this is where the orifice protrudes and seals to let in the fertilizer.
The second pictuer sows the back side or the part that is in the bottle.
The air comes through the three holes and put the outside edge of the rubber seal into the bottle to make up for the fluid going out.
It is self regulating as log as everything is clean and in order.
You will also see a number on the cape and the rubber seal, 33 and 120 I wonder what those are for.
One more pictuer coming up with the seal taken out so you can see it better.
Worth
[ATTACH]62696[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]62697[/ATTACH]

[QUOTE=Worth1;572497]
15 PSI atmospheric pressure

Worth[/QUOTE]

14.7 @ sea level....

or

14.696 psi

From my engine building classes...

I know you were just rounding it off in laymen's terms.

Here is the cap with the seal taken out.
I have a small stick stuck in the slit.
Worth
[ATTACH]62698[/ATTACH]

[QUOTE=MrSalvage;572502]14.7 @ sea level....

or

14.696 psi

From my engine building classes...

I know you were just rounding it off in laymen's terms.[/QUOTE]

Yes I was just rounding off.:lol:

Just like my lathe says I cant cut 11.5 threads per inch but I can if I convert it to metric threads or at least get so close it doesn't matter with a gear swap.
Pitch in inches 0.08696 converted to metric is 2.209 MM.
The lathe will cut 2.2.
This is less than run out or imperfections.

Worth

Well Allrighty then. Thanks for the suggestions on my leak problem. I decided to heed Worth's advice and go the glue-on route.

I have expanded my plan up to using 5 gal buckets for concentrate and connect to the feeder with 5/8" hose. In order to do that I had to reduce from the 1" PVC that the feeder bottle threads are glued to... to 1/2" for the 5/8" female hose attachment. I spent about an hour at Lowe's (where I wanted to use my Fathers Day gift card) trying to figure out a way to make the reduction since Lowe's didn't have a simple 1" x 1/2" adapter. I ended up using a 1" x 1/2" tee, and plugging the tee part, then using a 1 x 1/2" bushing. It appears to be excellent. I will build out my rack to hold the 5 gal buckets and test it...hopefully later today. I am stoked about this.

By the way. I stacked 4 of the MiracleGro feeders to provide options to add various ferts or treatments and I have experienced no problems with that so far.

[QUOTE=Salsacharley;572736]Well Allrighty then. Thanks for the suggestions on my leak problem. I decided to heed Worth's advice and go the glue-on route.

I have expanded my plan up to using 5 gal buckets for concentrate and connect to the feeder with 5/8" hose. In order to do that I had to reduce from the 1" PVC that the feeder bottle threads are glued to... to 1/2" for the 5/8" female hose attachment. I spent about an hour at Lowe's (where I wanted to use my Fathers Day gift card) trying to figure out a way to make the reduction since Lowe's didn't have a simple 1" x 1/2" adapter. I ended up using a 1" x 1/2" tee, and plugging the tee part, then using a 1 x 1/2" bushing. It appears to be excellent. I will build out my rack to hold the 5 gal buckets and test it...hopefully later today. I am stoked about this.

By the way. I stacked 4 of the MiracleGro feeders to provide options to add various ferts or treatments and I have experienced no problems with that so far.[/QUOTE]

Charley, can you post pictures of 4 feeders stacked? I would certainly like to see that!

Thanks
Bill

Here's a picture of the 4 stacked feeders from my earlier set up. They will remain the same in my new set up. Sorry it came out sideways.

[QUOTE=Worth1;572497]They were never meant to be used over again so this is why some are putting out more than others.

Worth[/QUOTE]

Worth I am talking about brand new bottles putting down different rates brother! I haven't reused any bottles whatsoever.

Remember I bought over 60 brand new bottles. No need to reuse any of them yet. Plus i don't have your adapter's yet to build it out the way i want.

When I put my irrigation system in I had to go to Lowes and Home Depot to get fittings.
What one had the other didn't.
It is almost as though they have it planned out to make you build stuff from more fittings than you need.

Some of these fitting they didn't have are very common fittings too.
Lowes should have had the 1 inch collars/couplings so you didn't have to buy the tee.

Worth

[QUOTE=MrSalvage;572817]Worth I am talking about brand new bottles putting down different rates brother! I haven't reused any bottles whatsoever.

Remember I bought over 60 brand new bottles. No need to reuse any of them yet. Plus I don't have your adapter's yet to build it out the way i want.[/QUOTE]

If you look at the design you can see there is no way that can be accurate as far as feed rate.
New or used.
Can you look at some of the cap parts and see if the numbers are the same like in the pictures I showed?

I will go ahead and build the adapters, I hope you dont get them and think they are junk.:lol:

Worth