Here is a little something I put together for a cross I am working with. I left out the fact that there is also dwarf/determinant/indeterminant factors going on.

[URL]http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=11700[/URL]

The original question in this post may have already been answered and I may have overlooked it. In the gene lists, dominant genes are designated by a capital letter for the first letter of the abbreviation for the gene and recessive genes are designated by a lower case letter for the first letter in the abbreviation. Good examples of dominant genes are the disease resistance genes such as Ve, I, I-2, I-3, Mi, Sw-5, Tm-2. Good examples of recessive genes are sp, t, y, j-2. I hope this helps.

Tom, are you still with us???

Mark asks where I am several times a year it seems...the latest ...
[quote]Tom, are you still with us???[/quote]Yeah...mostly over on the potato forum..seems that more folks are more interested in my potato varieties and breeding work than with my tomatoes.

There are just too many tomato varieties out there and the interest in new lines from me would be rather redundant! I released quite a few tomato varieties and crosses in Europe last Fall but the wind went out of my sails when I came home to the states where we are over-run with varieties....and I lost some of my push to talk about tomatoes.

Not to say I don't still work with the breeding and selection.....but I had to start with new cooperators this year as last year's cooperators were overwhelmed with too many varieties.

I am struggling to find the time to transplant tomatoes in the greenhouse and work for a living full time. I try to transplant 50 to 72 varieties a day, and most of the time those varieties/crosses/segregates number from just a few to several hundred per line. On the potato sub forum I think I may have talked about potato seedling transplants as in my 502 hybrid plants of Skagit Valley Golds x bulk diploids for example.

I thought about putting together a web site about my tomatoes but I failed for the umpteenth time to get the follow through to put a site even to a single page.

I have thousands of pictures I took in Europe...many of my tomatoes grown there but I get this kind of message when I try to upload picture 5412...
[quote][B]DSCN5412.JPG[/B]:
The Dimension limits for this filetype are 1584 x 3300. We were unable to resize your file so you will need to do so manually and upload it again. Your file is currently 3264 x 2448.[/quote]If I had the time I would write about the extreme vigor of a Sun Gold x Blue P-20 and the purple stems of the hybrid....or the riot of plant types of a complex cross of Anana Noir x Green Zebra x Vintage Wine x NC2cms35/10 x Gamblers x Sweet N Sour x WV700 x Blue P-20 but who would care?

Also...who would care to read about a cross of a pink and green striped crossed to a hybrid of Blue P-20 and Woolly Green Zebra...picking out the seedlings to replant that are showing woolliness, blue stems, and hoping for a 50% chance of those having vivid stripes? Who would want to know what I am looking for in that one in the F-2 generation? I have to worry if I can find homes for them locally for seed extraction and breeding purposes.

There you go again, teasing us as usual! You need to spill the beans already. Yes, everyone's still interested--BUT people will lose interest the quieter you are!

I'm still interested in finding out more about bi-colors. I also think perhaps a green gene has something to do with them, maybe green fruit or green stripe. I have a cross from a clear skin yellow and a green fruit and think there may be something besides apricot contributing.

I also have a brown that I believe flip-flopped to green, maybe you can tell us more about the common genes between greens/browns (blacks.)

As for your uploading problem, just use ACDSee (I prefer version 5 instead of newer versions) and run a batch resize--select all the files and resize to whatever dimension or percent of original. You can also change the compression ratio at the same time to save on the file size(s.)

Tom, heaven forbid, but I was also just curious if you have a plan in place in case something ever happened to you. What happens to all your work?

Tom, you mustn't stop posting about your tomato varieties! You're all but a legend among the cultivar pioneers, from what I've read. You've got a huge reputation to live up to, and we expect you will guide us into the future of the sustainable food movement. Potatoes are a great crop, but nothing brings smiles like a red cherry tomato! Thank you for all your efforts, and we hope you will not give up on us.

I understand your lack of time Tom, but I will continue to stalk you around the internet finding time to read what you have time to write.

I'm trying to get my head around how these blue genes fit with bicolour tomatoes. Are we talking green zebra with blue shoulders, or green zebra with coloured stripes that are more photosensitive than other areas?

I don't have the time to do this...but my isolation at times from this fourm needs remedial action.....and some folks want my input for some reason and my response here is assuaging guilt on my part and maybe responding to questions will help me understand myself better...namely ....[B]Parallel play[/B] is in play here with all due respect. Lots of puns, however.

[quote][B]Parallel play[/B] is a form of play where children play adjacent to each other, but in a seemingly solitary manner. An observer will notice that they occasionally notice what the other is doing and then modify their play accordingly. [/quote]I am not much out of the Solitary play mode. I am trying to figure out how to advance to Associative Play and perhaps even to Cooperative Play which implies some shared purpose. As an adult I lapse into earlier play scenarios. Such is the nature of a plant breeder whose own childhood is still with him. Slightly Aspie, hard of hearing, works best by himself, likes familiar surroundings and connects to memorization of trivia of such.



[quote]....As for your uploading problem, just use ACDSee (I prefer version 5 instead of newer versions) and run a batch resize--select all the files and resize to whatever dimension or percent of original. You can also change the compression ratio at the same time to save on the file size(s.)[/quote]I googled the ACDSEE and I noted that the newest version is around $60 + , therefore I googled the free versions and downloaded the 8.0 version as it was called older version. I have it somewhere, but not sure where it is...the icon on the screen saver does not link to what I thought it was, and when I read the munu earlier on what it does...I lost the concept of how to put pictures on it...Maybe later.


[quote]Tom, heaven forbid, but I was also just curious if you have a plan in place in case something ever happened to you. What happens to all your work?[/quote]Funny, I don't even have a plan even if nothing happens to me! My work in other breeding projects lies dormant in a storage facility in Bakersfield, CA and can be best said to be in default by attrition. This storage contains a library of documents, books, field journals, jars of old seed such as peas, beans, corn, tomatoes, potatoes, soybeans, wheat.....all part of a 50 some year adventure in plant breeding placed on hold with the exception of some continuance in potato and tomato breeding that extended through the years to my current situation in Washington (state). There is no germination survival of those old units of much accounting.

MOST of the genetic stocks that have been used in research in the US were developed and conserved by public sector universities and federal government
research organizations during the past, however some shift to seed saving groups and hobbyists has occurred in the last 25 years or so . So many of us in the private breeding and the research community have been subject of the '[I]gradual attrition, and occasional dramatic losses, of these specialized stocks[/I]' over the years. So very often.... important genetic resources were dumped before [I]"relocation plans[/I]" could be constructed and/or because a "[B]new stock curator[/B]" was not available . The push for GMO's have led to additional[I] "abandonment of existing genetic stocks" [/I]and I could not be there for that continuance since I am a breeder---not a inventory house of existing stocks---although I do keep a lot of true seed of potatoes and additionally maintain many obscure clones of tomatoes from the late Victor Lambeth tomato collection, for example.

I dropped off many tomato varieties in my tour of Europe last year couple with the message that new varieties of tomatoes do not need to be registered with laws that forbid anyone but registered seed growers and sellers participating. I tried to leave them with the concept that new varieties can and should come from backyards rather than from the top down.

[quote]You're all but a legend among the cultivar pioneers, from what I've read. You've got a huge reputation to live up to[/quote]There seems to be a disconnect between being a pioneer plus holding a reputation of sorts in juxtaposition with futurist and optimist. I know that most folks in Europe "knew" my Green Zebra but did not know about me. When I told people of the new Green Zebras in various breeding lines I taunted them by giving them seed of the new lines. Fifty lines alone in Vienna!

I don't know how many times I tried to use that so-called pioneer/reputation illusion as a resume of sorts to to invite myself into a variety of non-profit or for-profit organizations to pursue further development of plant varieties. It almost appears that it is an Albatross's dilemma!

[quote]I'm trying to get my head around how these blue genes fit with bicolour tomatoes. Are we talking green zebra with blue shoulders, or green zebra with coloured stripes that are more photosensitive than other areas?[/quote][quote]You're all but a legend among the cultivar pioneers[/quote]The blue genes fitting in with other colors, stripes......is part of my most wide spread venture...especially in Europe....the UK included....and I am hoping the photosensitive areas in juxtaposition with the stripes will find some interesting coordinates. My experience in developing potato berries with blue colors and blue dapples and stripes are part of my template of doing the same in tomatoes. I am hoping the dark green stripes of a Green Zebra mimic the dark green shoulders that fixate the photosensitive areas to turn blue and trace down the fruit with a distinct blue stripe. That in con★★★★★★★★ with various flesh colors and clear/yellow epidermis layers could.... and will open up new vibrant color vistas in tomatoes.

Tom Wagner

Wow! Six years & counting!

[QUOTE=Sherry_AK;98740]Another link to the above information in .pdf format.

[URL]http://www.genetics.org/cgi/reprint/10/4/305[/URL][/QUOTE]

Is the info in that pdf a little old? Anything incorrect? It said there will never be a dwarf peach, and that's not true, I grew one last season...

There are things we now understand better (or not!) :?:

Not everything is a single gene trait; multiple genes can work together to influence an observed phenotype, such as yield or plant shape.

Turning that statement around, genes at different genomic locations can affect the same characteristic, such as fruit color or epidermal hairiness.

Genes for different traits may not be inherited independently (i.e. they may be near to each other on a chromosome and tend to be inherited together). That will skew observed phenotypes from Mendelian ratios.

Those are some of the things that can complicate expectations, but keep genetics interesting :yes:

[QUOTE=Tom Wagner;99450]I just off the phone will Roger Cheletat of the Tomato Resources Center here in Davis, California where I am staying at the moment. Unfortunately, he could only take enough time to return my call as he and his associates are busy with field trip preparations.

We talked in some detail about gene expression of (at), a recessive gene called (Apricot) which is noted for having yellow-pink flesh color. We also talked about gf, gs, and gr.

Apparently since they are curators of genes rather than breeders, the information we are seeking is not known offhand by Roger. It also seems that some of the genes I have been using have mutated since the phenotypes are not as the descriptors of those genes delineate.

Bi-colored fruits have been studied in the past, Roger states, but I will have to explore the database more completely before I talk with him again.

The high pigment genes are bouncing around in many of my creations, but I am too rusty right now to explain how I am using the enhanced expression for flesh colors. To give you some idea of the complexity of the subject see these links below.
[B]When I find the time I will try to explain the above research in common language.
[/B]
Tom Wagner[/QUOTE]
You dropped 2 big technical paragraphs on us in post #18 that aren't showing up in this post, right above the bold line; if you have more time, could you please translate them?

[QUOTE=PhilaGardener;587860]Genes for different traits may not be inherited independently (i.e. they may be near to each other on a chromosome and tend to be inherited together). That will skew observed phenotypes from Mendelian ratios.
[/QUOTE]

Can you or anyone answer,is it possible to separate these genes or are they *always* inherited together?

[QUOTE=StrongPlant;594292]Can you or anyone answer,is it possible to separate these genes or are they *always* inherited together?[/QUOTE]

The effect is called "genetic linkage" and is caused by pairs of genes being close enough to each other that there is a reduced chance of them being independently inherited. The closer they are, the less likely they are to separate. The further away they are, the more likely they are to separate, up until they show no linkage at all.

Even two halves of the same gene will occasionally be swapped between chromosome pairs and thus get inherited independently. It's all about numbers and statistics.

[QUOTE=Darren Abbey;594359]The effect is called "genetic linkage" and is caused by pairs of genes being close enough to each other that there is a reduced chance of them being independently inherited. The closer they are, the less likely they are to separate. The further away they are, the more likely they are to separate, up until they show no linkage at all.

Even two halves of the same gene will occasionally be swapped between chromosome pairs and thus get inherited independently. It's all about numbers and statistics.[/QUOTE]

Thank you! I guess that's how they improved the corn so much over the last century,breeders just wiped out the bad genes by growing millions of plants.I got the wrong idea that some genes are linked so "hard" that they are always inherited together.

Does anyone know whether green fruit color in wild-type tomato species is dominant or recessive to red color from cultivated tomato? I could't find any information about the green fruit color dominance patterns in general,so any answers/links would be appreciated!

My experience is that S. habrochaites ripens to white. S. peruvianum and S. corneliomulleri ripen to purple over white.

I have F1 hybrids currently flowering from crosses between domesticated red and black tomatoes and S. habrochaites. I hope to update this thread in a couple months if they produce ripe fruit.

I can document that exerted stigma is recessive, and huge/fused flower petals are dominant. Orange anther cone is also dominant.

Fern-leaf and potato-leaf are recessive to S. habrochaites type leaves.

Anybody else have problems accessing page 4?

Yes. When I am on page 3 and click on 4 or >, page 3 reloads.

When I hover my cursor over 4, it does say that page 4 offers messages 46 to 49.

Odd. Now the message numbers on this page have changed. This was #41, and now it is #45. Maybe I'll be able to access page 4 now .

[QUOTE=joseph;596306]My experience is that S. habrochaites ripens to white. S. peruvianum and S. corneliomulleri ripen to purple over white.

I have F1 hybrids currently flowering from crosses between domesticated red and black tomatoes and S. habrochaites. I hope to update this thread in a couple months if they produce ripe fruit.

I can document that exerted stigma is recessive, and huge/fused flower petals are dominant. Orange anther cone is also dominant.

Fern-leaf and potato-leaf are recessive to S. habrochaites type leaves.[/QUOTE]

I have S.Neorickii and it supposedly has green fruit when it ripens.S.Pennellii also has green fruit.So what happens in F1s when you cross them to a colored tomato? I envy you for having S.Habrochaites! It such a cool tomato and it seems super-resistant to insects.

My last year inseted stigma x inserted stigma had exerted ones,which is different than your experience,it probably has a more complex inheritance pattern.

[QUOTE=LDiane;596360]Yes. When I am on page 3 and click on 4 or >, page 3 reloads.

When I hover my cursor over 4, it does say that page 4 offers messages 46 to 49.

Odd. Now the message numbers on this page have changed. This was #41, and now it is #45. Maybe I'll be able to access page 4 now .[/QUOTE]

Fixed!:yes:

Not entirely fixed. Hovering the cursor over 4 says that page four contains messages 46 to 51 of 51. This message is going to be #48. Where are 49 to 51?

Now I am mystified. My message is numbered #52. Does this happen to any other threads or is this one the only spooky one?

===================
the following day: now my message is numbered #48, as I originally expected when I posted it yesterday. The message in the corner still says that there are 52 messages in this thread. So it seems there are ghost messages due to weird numbering but no actual missing ones.

[QUOTE=LDiane;596482]Not entirely fixed. Hovering the cursor over 4 says that page four contains messages 46 to 51 of 51. This message is going to be #48. Where are 49 to 51?

Now I am mystified. My message is numbered #52. Does this happen to any other threads or is this one the only spooky one?

===================
the following day: now my message is numbered #48, as I originally expected when I posted it yesterday. The message in the corner still says that there are 52 messages in this thread. So it seems there are ghost messages due to weird numbering but no actual missing ones.[/QUOTE]

Well, "at least we are on the same page" as the saying goes...