Ray, what was the fertilizer application for the pepper experiment?

[QUOTE=ChrisK;285335]Ray, what was the fertilizer application for the pepper experiment?[/QUOTE]

Plain water until true leaves appeared then Drammatic K Fish Hydrolysate & Kelp Fertilizer, 2-5-0.2 at 1ml per quart of water.

Capsicum seedlings in diatomite under LEDs 17.03.2012

RayR - love this experiment and your results. Have you got any theories yet on why the DE works so much better for toms, peppers & onions as a seed-starting mix? And how are these plants doing thus far, assuming you've got them outside? Have you experimented with mixing the DE in with your potting mix?

[QUOTE=babice;288409]RayR - love this experiment and your results. Have you got any theories yet on why the DE works so much better for toms, peppers & onions as a seed-starting mix? And how are these plants doing thus far, assuming you've got them outside? Have you experimented with mixing the DE in with your potting mix?[/QUOTE]

I don't have all the answers but I don't think there is a lot of mystery here either. Starting seeds this way is a form of hydroponics and that is where some of the answers may be found.

1.) The DE is made of irregular shaped particles so there is no compaction which allows more oxygen getting to the young roots and the roots have an easier time growing between the light weight particles.

2.) DE is very porous so the wicking action from bottom watering keeps water and nutrients moving upward to the roots.

3.) DE has a pretty ideal Cation Exchange Capacity, so it is able to retain nutrients and provide them to the plants when needed.

4.) DE is made of mostly insoluble silica, but has small amounts of soluble silica which is a micronutrient.

Levent has been doing this for a lot longer than I have, so maybe he has something to add.

The plants that I kept are doing just fine out in the garden.

Gosh, I'm in luck found a place that sells food grade DE and it is only 1.00 a pound, provided you purchase a 50 LB bag, which isn't a problem as I'm going to also use it for the yard, for flea control. Going to pick it up next Tuesday, hurrraaaayyyyyy, plus I'm going to start all my seed in it as well.

Thanks for sharing your results with us.

Hi,
Ray stated all the rationale that leads the diatomite to success in seed sprouting.I can't add anything more.It was explained decently.
Diatomite is a reliable solid medium option for S/H (simple hydroponics) Here's an example that resulted fruitfully!
Capsicum annuum 'Tricolor Variegata' in S/H (I call it double pot method formerly known as hydroculture)

Ray and Levent, I am really impressed by the growth you are getting from DE. Especially the seedling roots! I think I'll give it a go. How do you determine the amount of nutrients to add to the water once leaves have developed? I'm unfamiliar with Drammatic, so I don't know how your dosing compares to the regular dilution rate. Is it possible to put in terms of percent strength of fertilizer? Or how does one figure it out?

[QUOTE=nativeplanter;291149]Ray and Levent, I am really impressed by the growth you are getting from DE. Especially the seedling roots! I think I'll give it a go. How do you determine the amount of nutrients to add to the water once leaves have developed? I'm unfamiliar with Drammatic, so I don't know how your dosing compares to the regular dilution rate. Is it possible to put in terms of percent strength of fertilizer? Or how does one figure it out?[/QUOTE]

I was just making an educated guess based on my original observations with DE.
DE will wick up and absorb far more water than seed starting mix, therefore it will also draw up more nutrients that are introduced into the water. It just seemed reasonable to use a lighter dose of fertilizer in the water with that consideration. Besides, in my initial experiment with onion seedlings, I used a higher dose of fertilizer at first, but that only seemed to encourage thick algae growth on the surface of the DE. In my second trial with onions, I cut back the fertilizer and the onion seedlings grew just as well and the algae growth was minimal.
On the Jiffy Mix plants after noticing the DE plants were doing better, I upped the fertilizer dosage on the Jiffy Mix plants, but that didn't make any difference, the DE plants still grew better.
I used Drammatic K Fish & Seaweed because that is what I had on hand from the previous year and it worked fine, you could use some other brand and it will probably work just as well. I didn't even try using synthetics because I have been working strictly with organics for a few years now, but I guess there is a lot of room for all kinds of experiments.:dizzy:

[QUOTE=Levent;291094]Hi,
Ray stated all the rationale that leads the diatomite to success in seed sprouting.I can't add anything more.It was explained decently.
Diatomite is a reliable solid medium option for S/H (simple hydroponics) Here's an example that resulted fruitfully!
Capsicum annuum 'Tricolor Variegata' in S/H (I call it double pot method formerly known as hydroculture)[/QUOTE]

Nice pepper plant.

I use only inorganic liquid fert in suggested dose.For this plant I apply alternately fert (8-8-8) and plain water.So the effective dose becomes half.

Here's the current state of some pepper plants in containers from the DE seed starting experiment. Very healthy and moving right along with fruit set and many flowers.:yes:

That are some really nice looking peppers. The company that I have an order with keeps putting me off for the 50lb bag says it is due in this day then I call first (thankgoodness) nope didn't come in yet. I'm giving them two more weeks to get their act together before I go looking somewhere else as they have horses there and I'm also hope to talk them out of some horse manure when I go....LOL

[I]Solanum quitoense[/I] (Naranjilla) seedling in diatomite

Do you guys find that smaller seeds get lost under such large particles?

wow.... I've still not gotten any as the company I found keeps telling me oh the delivery will be in next week, and so it goes, if there was another company that was close I would switch, but I've come to decide that should it not be in next week for me to pick up, then I'm going with my regular seed starter soil.

[QUOTE=nativeplanter;293267]Do you guys find that smaller seeds get lost under such large particles?[/QUOTE]

No, not at all. I guess you have to work with DE first to get the feel of it. Even though there are large particles, there are small one's too. It's really no different than working with a regular seed starting mix. Your seeds won't get lost, they stay where you put them.

Let me get this straight, you are planning on using a food grade DE for seed starting? That is extremely finely powered, I haven't tried that. I don't know how that would work. I use it for insect control so know how dusty it is but it sounds to me that it would be difficult to work with compared to a granular DE.

I'm going to shift out the finer parts, as he said he could get it not in complete powder, maybe that is why it is taking so long for it to come in.....

My main reason for it is for pest control fleas on my collies and in the yard, then to use for seeds, so we will see if it is too fine and turns to concrete.....

If it's "not in complete powder", what is it?. Do you know where it comes from and the intended purpose of the product?

it is food grade as they use it around their horse farm, even giving it to the horses, but mostly they use it in the manure to keep the flies down.

OK finally, finally got my DE today, so I'm a happy camper.

Starting tomorrow with seeds, hurrayyyyyyy I'm so excited..... Plus got lots of aged horse manure as well. Hard to think of life getting any better...LOL

I just ran into this DE subject and am very interested in trying it. Being new in starting seeds for container gardening, I planted some seeds in Jiffy Mix over a week ago and there is no sign of plant life. I planted some Astia Zucchini seeds a week ago in my basic soil mixture for pots and they are already two inches tall. Thanks to all of you for the information regarding DE. I have some food grade DE available and will try that rather than JM in my next seeding. Not seeding right now, temperature outside was 107 a few hours ago; ice tea time.

jacksson, it is always sweet ice tea time here....LOL We have gone almost a week without rain,,, and that makes for hot that is rather uncomfortable..... but hopefully we will get some rain this weekend due to TD storm that is coming from the south, what would be good is if the storm could move inland to all the midwest areas that are in need of rain, even if the rain would be too late in the season.

Rain? What is that?
 

[QUOTE=meadowyck;296328]jacksson, it is always sweet ice tea time here....LOL We have gone almost a week without rain,,, and that makes for hot that is rather uncomfortable..... but hopefully we will get some rain this weekend due to TD storm that is coming from the south, what would be good is if the storm could move inland to all the midwest areas that are in need of rain, even if the rain would be too late in the season.[/QUOTE]

We haven't had any rain worth mentioning for over a month, maybe two. But, that is more or less normal in sunny California. But, I am drinking Chai tea. :?

jacksson I love your avatar, that owl is beautiful.

Well still now rain it stayed to the north of us, maybe tomorrow.

I am heading to Auto Zone today and see if they have it here. I have been having a terrible time with damping off due to the high humidity in my greenhouse. I haven't found a product that will maintain a dry surface to prevent damping off during times when our humidity levels are near 100% and that has been most days lately.

Ray does the surface stay dry enough to prevent damping off? Is dust a problem since I will be working with it in a greenhouse? Do you have to keep bottom water available all the time of do you just water them every few days that way?

Ray I am really excited about this. It may be the solution to my damping off problems. The last few bags of Jiffy and MG seed starting mediums I bought had mold inside the bags when I opened them. Quality control seems to be a big problem with most of the products I have tried with one bag being great and then the next one will be lacking in some way. I am also going to try coconut coir and may do a comparison.

Thanks for posting this information.

I haven't had any damping off problems with DE. I've seen a number of references about professional growers who use silicate minerals, mainly coarse sand or crushed granite (bird grit) as a top layer over a seed starting medium to prevent damping off. I've done this myself with great results, the only times I've had any damping off problems was when I was using seed starting mix alone. I've seen a recommendation from a hydroponics grower to use DE as a top layer over seed starting medium for the same reason. I don't know if the effectiveness is due to a dryer surface or if the mineral layer is just inhospitable to the growth of damping off pathogens, maybe both, I don't know for sure, but it seems to work well.

There is some fine dust even with the granular DE, but not bad and only when first pouring it out of the bag. Misting it good with water will eliminate any dust kick up when filling your cells.

I judge the bottom watering by the color of the top surface, when the DE is getting dry it appears very white, when it is moist it turns darker and the earth tones come out.

It'll be interesting to hear your results.

I'm going to give it a try if they have it at the local Auto Zone. Thanks again.

I'm still on board to do this but with the visit of family I've just not had time to start, will be though coming monday night after they fly home...LOL I love family but I also love the down time....LOL

I got the last bag at my local Auto Zone and they won't be getting any more for a week or so. I'll try it with some fall seeds and they are all small so I will get to see how it works on those tiny seed.