Hi..I would like to go back to my earlier photos....Basicly on Post #1....my plans were (at the appropriate time) to transplant straight out into my growing drums in the greenhouse....I am now wondering if I should consider transplanting now into "intermediate" pots and bury the stems up to the first true leaves ...Of course this is if its past the time that cold treatment would be beneficial..

I am hoping that today I will be informed about what is exactly happening regards the "Mature" plants that I planned on buying....Hopefully my email to what is no doubt the best independant gardening/grower centre in the city will get a response to wether they can supply me? At a realistic price?

By the way I have found what I think is a great thread on "how to grow seedlings with thick stems" but its on another web site and do not know if its appropriate to post the link??Regards Ron

PS..Have you ever heard of a tomato called Blue Fruit....It has a potato leaf...

Every pic looks over-watered to me. Cool temperatures make the problem worse. They would do well to get warm during the day, enough to dry out the media a little.

I do let my seedlings in the greenhouse get cold at night, but I'm not sure how much that helps them, if any. They also get very hot on a sunny day, 90+ degrees F. High temperatures seem to speed growth for me, and the roots like it when the media gets almost dry before the next watering.

If you keep everything else the same, try taking your current media and adding a lot of perlite to lighten it up. That will reduce the negative effects of being cold and wet, by making the media hold more air.

If you want thick stems in a seedling, growth dwarfs. They look like thick little trees as seedlings. The Dwarf Project on this web site has produced a lot of delicious varieties, some of the best I have ever tasted. They are well-suited to container growing as well.

I can't quite make out the Miracle-Gro proportions. Is that 27-6-27 ?? Strong stuff, and not what I'd use on peppers. (a multiple of 3:1:2). Tomatoes are reputed to need somewhat less N than peppers. I typically see "tomato" ratios of 1:1:1 or similar.

Me, I wouldn't use any ferts at all on seedlings. Not until they get up in the 4-6" range.

In you last pic, the pots are WET. A few are just starting to dry at the surface, which is good. Trust me - under-watering is [U]not[/U] your problem.

Cold and wet all the time spell crappy plants.
Not unless it is moss.
Worth

Hi...I cannot get through here... I put the DRY soil mix in the pots ..I packed it down in the bottom to ensure the soil had a chance to make contact and get access to water via a capillary cloth ( the pot was aprox 1/3 full) ......I then lightly Sprayed rain water from a spray bottle on the DRY soil mix...sprinkled Mycorrhizae on the soil then put the seedling on the soil still in its peat pot but with the bottom cut off and the side cut ....I hand fed some soil where the cut was and carefully unwrapped/removed the peat pot from around the seedling and hand fed soil down the sides .....up to the growing leaves ....i then lightly sprayed around the top ensuring no spray was put on the plant itself.....The pot was then put on the tray on the capillary cloth..
now I think it was unlikely that the plants would actually be able to get water from the cloth...unless it grew roots down to it ....Once transplanted the seeds took off and I fed them about every 7 days a 1/3rd of a cup of a light Miracle gro mix as per the Instructions ..They have had 2 X 7 day waters??.....Now these pots have been sitting under lights with fans blowing on them 24/7 and I am told they are two wet??? when I can actually see and test and say that they are not....They are in the 4 - 6 inch range now .....

I have an Electronic thermostat in the chamber so i knew at any given time the actual temperature of the air ...

Looking back ..my biggest problem was that they were not being raised in a constant temperature etc because of the breakdown of my chamber......

There are a number of Sweet Scarlets in the trays (a Dwarf?).....I have posted another photo of the MG... Thanks Ron

[QUOTE=Worth1;671429]Cold and wet all the time spell crappy plants.
Not unless it is moss.
Worth[/QUOTE]
Oh Dear..I cannot win?? Ron

[QUOTE=murihikukid;671444]Oh Dear..I cannot win?? Ron[/QUOTE]


I just speak the truth from experience.

If I grow under lights in the garage in the winter it isn't that much different that where you live.
The lights are on in the day time and go off at night.
Under the lights they are around 70F or so at night they are down to 50F 60F or so but not all the time.
16 hours a day for the light.
I bottom water and let it dry out between fillings.
They do not stay wet all the time.
In my opinion and the opinion of many other people that have seen them in person they are killer kick a$$ plants.
Around 100 watts of light per square foot.
You simply cannot let that soil suck up water all the time and stay wet in a cold environment.
Worth

ron, I am no expert by any means... I personally don't think they look wet but cold. tomatoes hate to be cold. I have seen my greenhouse full of toms just look like they are hunkering down when they are cold, but I probably have watered them out there too and they could be cold and wet. but I just think they look cold. nice thick stems come from: variety, sometimes they are sprayed with growth regulators by the large growers when shipping them to sell, air movement, fertilizer quality/quantity..light quality/quantity..... there are plenty of factors involved to get thick stems and stocky plants. I have let mine dry out to the point of wilting... daily... while trying to keep them from getting tall. sometimes it works sometimes they are tall and woody stemmed.

you can plant those tomatoes as deep as you want. pull off the cotyledons and leaves if you put them deeper than the leaf nodes. they will grow roots wherever they come in contact with the soil.

I care for my plants differently than you are trying, but that is just difference... neither right or wrong... it is only wrong if you kill off your plants.. that is a not even necessarily a fail... hopefully you learned something... it didn't work. whether it is me or you or someone else trying to get a crop. I don't overly worry about potting up into a larger pot myself. I tend to let them get pretty rootbound if it isn't in my schedule to do something that day or even that week. it doesn't seem to hurt them any.

I see why you were so tired after your trip. With your medical history, be sure to take a snack to have along the way. Check you sugar when you get home, BEFORE taking you will deserved nap.

I would transplant those plants into your large drums right away. Forego the cold treatment and get them out into the direct sunlight. I would plant them at least to the first true leaves. I do not remove any of the leaves because I have damaged stems doing that. I just plant them deeper and the leaves will decompose on their own without damage to the plant. There is no right or wrong way. I would add more mycos at planting time by applying them to the root mass. Your MG has plenty of nitrogen. If I were to add anything else it would be potassium or potash. I would feed your plants every 7 to 10 days with the MG for two feedings and then I would give them Calmag with Epsom salts on the third feeding. Go back to MG for two cycles and them Calmag/Epsom again.

So bypass the cold treatment with your first group and for this new batch go ahead and give it (the cold treatment) a try IF you think that you can also get the lights down on them.

speaking of "plenty of nitrogen" plenty of N will make the plants grow like weeds and then produce no fruit. if that is the only thing you can get for them dilute it by 1/2 and find some phosphorus to add from another source. Just my opinion, but I think it is way too much nitrogen.

[QUOTE=MissS;671453]I see why you were so tired after your trip. With your medical history, be sure to take a snack to have along the way. Check you sugar when you get home, BEFORE taking you will deserved nap.

I would transplant those plants into your large drums right away. Forego the cold treatment and get them out into the direct sunlight. I would plant them at least to the first true leaves. I do not remove any of the leaves because I have damaged stems doing that. I just plant them deeper and the leaves will decompose on their own without damage to the plant. There is no right or wrong way. I would add more mycos at planting time by applying them to the root mass. Your MG has plenty of nitrogen. If I were to add anything else it would be potassium or potash. I would feed your plants every 7 to 10 days with the MG for two feedings and then I would give them Calmag with Epsom salts on the third feeding. Go back to MG for two cycles and them Calmag/Epsom again.

So bypass the cold treatment with your first group and for this new batch go ahead and give it (the cold treatment) a try IF you think that you can also get the lights down on them.[/QUOTE]

Thankyou Patti..........I have just biked from one end of town to the other looking for parts,cost etc If I decide to change the Growth Chamber...Which I may not do ?? as I have been advised by another person not to???

Yes your post says it all ...I was thinking exactly the same except you have added some extras for me..like adding the Mycos and a time table to work too...in fact I think I should take the two trays out to the greenhouse now...and give them a few hours under the sun out there and organise everything to transplant them tomorrow..Thankyou Ron

[QUOTE=Worth1;671447]I just speak the truth from experience.


You simply cannot let that soil suck up water all the time and stay wet in a cold environment.
Worth[/QUOTE]

Worth..... there is no water to suck up... The trays have no water and the capillaries are dead dry ...With the lights on I estimate they are in 25 degrees of air temperature and about 18 at night ...They have never been in a cold wet environment....
I am taking Patti's advice and tomorrow 28 will be transplanted less some I will be giving away..I need to check my drums and make sure everything is ready for a hards days work...with reasonably nice days everything should go alright but it does get hot in my greenhouse although I will be adding more fans out there...and the arm chairs will have to be moved...Cheers Ron..

Hi...Some of my seedlings were put in small pots with the moss mix as far back as the 29th Sept..They germinated on paper but failed to appear ..i presume its now time to declare them AWOL ...Thanks Ron

That pic is a little better. 22/27(?):6:12? That's more like it. But still a lot of N for tomatoes.

[QUOTE].The pot was then put on the tray on the capillary cloth.. now I think it was unlikely that the plants would actually be able to get water from the cloth...unless it grew roots down to it[/QUOTE]Excuse me?!? Then what the bloody hell is the point of the cloth?? It wicks water [U]into the soil[/U]. That mechanism depends not at all on roots.

When I transplant I like to do it with wet mix because it's easier to handle and less likely to send dust up my nose. Then I saturate the pot, partially to make sure that the plant's small root structure has plenty of water to suck on and partly to settle the soil. Then I leave it alone for a while and don't water again until the pot feels light or the leaves show a little distress. THEN I know where I am in the watering cycle.

NO uncontrolled bottom watering. You MUST have feedback to get the watering right and you've set yourself up for a wing and a prayer, but no feedback. Fail is not to be unexpected.


Edit: I see that the cloth is dry .. now. I seriously doubt that it has been that way for long. Eh?